Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anti Christian Movement (China)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep - article cleaned up enough to satisfy nominator and consensus of others. Argyriou (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anti Christian Movement (China)

:Anti Christian Movement (China) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log) Per Wikipedia:SOAP and WP:FRINGE. While there's no denying there's persecution of Christians in China, characterizing it as an "anti-Christian movement," is original research, even if such research may be found on JSTOR. Anything in this article is also found in Christianity in China. Also, Communism in China had relatively little to do with Karl Marx or the Communist Manifesto, and more to do with Confucianism, Lenin, Mao, and Chinese bureaucracy. So, it's pretty dubious that the sources cited actually support the claims. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 10:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC) See comments below. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 07:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

• Redirect to Christianity in China. I find it difficult to believe this topic warrants its own article and the creator doesn't seem to have researched his subject very well considering the fact he misspelled Karl Marx's name. Redfarmer (talk) 10:36, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
• keep. A search for “anti-christian movement”+China on Jstor turns up 28 articles (ranging in date of publication from 1923 to 2004), and 20 book reviews (1928-2002). A search on google news gets 134 hits, dating back to 1922; google books gives 667 hits; google scholar 288; the bibliography of the Cambridge History of China lists the work Ka-che Yip, 'The anti-Christian movement in China, 1922-1927', Columbia University, Ph.D. dissertation, 1970; at this point I conclude that it is neither “original research” nor “neologism”, that it is a serious topic for independent treatment (or should we just merge "history of atheism" to "history of religion"?), and that the article might need clean-up and some rewriting but there are no grounds for deletion. --Paularblaster (talk) 13:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

adding comment: like a great many terms used in relation to Chinese history I'd guess it's a rather literal translation of a Chinese term; I'm on a university network at the moment so I don't know whether this is generally accessible ... --Paularblaster (talk) 13:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

and adding: this should really clinch it. Plenty there to get your teeth into. --Paularblaster (talk) 13:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Redfarmer, a redirect would only make sense if the title wasn't so verbose and it didn't have a disambig tag. Nobody's going to type, "Anti Christian movement (China)". I mean, there isn't even an article on Anti Christian Movement because it's such a contentious idea.

I will say, however, that Paularblaster's sources seem reliable and verified. So, instead, yes, let's just clean this up and clarify that it was specifically a historical movement and not some broad social movement that's necessarily going on right now. As the article on Christianity in China notes, Christianity is growing and the CPC are a lot more tolerant of religion than they used to be. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 20:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep. Well sourced historical event. There is probably a case for an article on the persecution of Christianity by the CPC in the post-revolution period (although as noted above, things are much better now), but that's another story. Mostlyharmless (talk) 21:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep OK, it wasn't as bad as the Boxer Rebellion or the Cultural Revolution, but it's a part of history. I'd never heard of it, but it's obvious from the titles of the sources that this is what it was called. Maybe the label "(China, 1920s)" can be added in there to make it more clear that this isn't an article about current sentiments. Mandsford (talk) 00:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Change vote to Keep. The article has been vastly improved, containing factual information about what appears to have been a historical anti-Christian movement in China, with reliable sources. ☯  Zenwhat (talk) 07:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.