Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anti-Hungarian sentiment

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. -- Black Falcon (Talk) 19:52, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Closer's note: The scope of this AfD nomination is limited to the article Anti-Hungarian sentiment only. It was not affected by nor should it affect the closing decision of any other AfD nomination of a similarly-titled article. -- Black Falcon (Talk) 19:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Hungarian sentiment

Anti-Hungarian_sentiment (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

This article should be deleted along with all other Anti-X articles, for example anti-Hellenism, anti-Macedonian sentiment etc. It is full of WP:OR and cannot get any better. In the Balkan-Danube region if we are to believe the Wikipedia articles everyone has discriminated against everyone else. And every piece of history is somehow discriminating or cast in a negative light towards some ethnic group. This is ridiculous. We essentially have a load of POV forks that contradict each other. Delete.

Alternatively merge into an article History of ethnic discrimination in the Balkan-Danube region which would cover the subject in a neutral manner, split on a historical, not ethnic basis. - Francis Tyers · 13:52, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Note: Other articles in this deletion series:

Comment: I just want to say that we should not create new article named "History of ethnic discrimination in the Balkan-Danube region" because this article will be the subject of constant revert wars. Current anti-X-sentiment articles were mainly the subject of revert wars between certain peoples and their neighbours, but we should not create article that will be subject of revert wars between all Balkans peoples and their neighbours. PANONIAN 14:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Comment I second PANONIAN's view on the "History of ethnic discrimination in the Balkan-Danube region" et al. Whatever is substantial can go into event-related articles (from Srebrenica to the Iaşi Pogrom to various individual pieces of legislation). Dahn 14:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Comment So do I, not because of the inevitable revert wars but because the topic is very unlikely to ever be presented in a consistent manner. KissL 14:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete together with the others. Common rationale, repeated here for convenience: Articles like this are legitimate only in cases like Anti-Semitism where there is a substantial body of academic, third-party literature that discusses the phenomenon as such in its entirety (as opposed to simply individual events described as "anti-X'ist"). Otherwise the synthesis of such events constitutes WP:OR. Legitimate information pertaining to individual historical situations can be integrated elsewhere, for instance in articles on "History of X" or "X-Y relations". Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anti-Hellenism. This article is just a list of non-notable events, presented here as grievances of one nation against its neighbors. It also attracts vandals adding unsourced claims and/or blanking the text. Tankred 19:58, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep but substantially improve, or just merge into the aforementioned History of ethnic discrimination in the Balkan-Danube region. This phenomenon exists (as do all the other anti-[insert nationality here] sentiments) and can be presented encyclopedically. The current article(s) is a mess to be sure, but that doesn't mean we need to trash it altogether.K. Lásztocska 21:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
    • After reading comments here and thinking about it a bit more I must change my vote to Weak delete. I would still support merging all these weird little articles (or parts of them) in to a new Balkan-Danube region article. K. Lásztocska 14:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Comment: Whether the phenomenon "exists" is completely and utterly irrelevant. The sole relevant question is whether academic literature about it exists. The same goes for a combined "History of ethnic discrimination in the Balkan-Danube region" article. It can be written if academic works exist that present such a synoptic view of the "history of ethnic discrimination in the Balkan-Danube region". Unless somebody can point us to some relevant literature on that issue, framed in those terms, any discussion about such an article is moot. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve. If you delete this, all anti-X-sentiment articles should bee deleted too. I am going to improve the article.Baxter9 05:23, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, but strongly disagree with Pannonian regarding creation of a general article. The fact that there will be edit wars does not mean the article should not be created, assuming valid secondary sources can be found. Dsol 10:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve. Most if not all of the statements in the article are based on verifiable facts. Ethnic discrimination in the Carpathian Basin is well documented by relevant literature. Árpád 14:34, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all per WP:SYN. KissL 14:43, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete (per arguments given here. Dahn 14:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom, and especially for OR.--Aldux 15:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve, as the phenomenon itself is real and documented. Biruitorul 15:49, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
    "In 2006, news appeared in the televisions about an anti-hungarian romanian game Romanians in space (Romani in Spatiu). The story line is based on the extermination of the hungarians.[1]" <-- Did you even see this game??? Do you really think that this is an example of anti-Hungarian sentiment? - Francis Tyers · 20:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
    It is a Romanian nacionalistic game, which is agains the Hungarians. What do you know about it??? I know this: "...The new emperor, Traian Basescu, announces that they'll have conquered the galaxy within 30 years. A few supporters of the former republic of Hungary have teamed up to fight for independence, and it's your job - as a pilot in the 88th fighter squadron of the 3rd Romanian Fleet - to "murder billions of green people...""...Maybe more then 50% of the existing games are about KILLING. People. Of ANOTHER NATION...". "..."billions of green men" are assimilated with the... 14.5 millions of Hungarians, who have the green as the national color..." Do you really think that this is not anti-hungarian???Baxter9 09:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
    And the reliable independent coverage in the academic literature discussing the significance of that game and its relation to the topic of this article is exactly where, please? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:38, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep The phenomenon exists and discussed in reliable sources. If the article is bad, it must be cleaned, not deleted. Mukadderat 16:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve. It is documented and describes real facts. These kind of situations occured and there is no real need to delete the article, but to improve it. And per this search also. --R O A M A T A A | msg  18:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all. WP:NOR, WP:POVFORKs. No exceptions = no bitching. NikoSilver 19:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all anti... sentiment articles, except for anti-Semitism, as Fut.Perf. wrote above. We should not motivate people to elaborate articles about "how other nations were behaving as enemies to my nation" - this is the first step towards xenophobia. Or, if we keep them, there should be articles about Pro-Hungarian Sentiment, Pro-Romanian sentiment, etc., too. --KIDB 09:36, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 13:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I think this article presents real facts. But we must take care with the NPOV. --Mocu 13:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • On one hand, these are existing terms, used in literature in the respective countrys' academia. At least the terms are existing phenomenons which need to be described (their origins, history, usage, etc.). OTOH, these are POV-magnets with little prospect for becoming proper articles. Not an easy decision. Very weak keep. Zocky | picture popups 13:41, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all; fails WP:SYN. See also my refute to "keep and improve" arguments at the Serbophobia AfD. Duja► 14:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete all. Local incidents hyped by (tabloid) media and individuals covering their own xenophobia or another agenda by pointing fingers at others are not valid enough for an encyclopedia article. You could find individuals in every nation hating some other nation/culture/race/whatever, yet that should be covered enough in general articles about prejudice, racism and such. Unless there is some substantial evidence for anti-whatever sentiment, these types of articles should have no place in Wikipedia.--Svetovid 17:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. Valid, verifiable topic. `'юзырь:mikka 17:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
    Please point us to academic sources that would verify it.--Svetovid 20:39, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
    Verify what? Nem tudom. That over the history many people hated Hungarians? Good Soldier Švejk convinced me like 40 years ago. Academic is none of my business. And you are very right every nation is hated by someone, and with substantial evidence, too. Or may be you and I understand the word "sentiment" differently? `'юзырь:mikka 04:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
    The question isn't whether anybody hates certain ethnicities or not. The question is whether an encyclopedic article can be written about it. To pull a random example, many people dislike eating tripe. It's perfectly verifiable. But we obviously can't write an encyclopedic article about anti-tripe sentiment? Is this substantially different, and if yes, why? Zocky | picture popups 13:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
    Well, anti-Hungarian sentiment has direct and indirect impact on the politics of both Hungary and the neighboring countries like Slovakia, Romania, Serbia etc. So yes, it is a bit more encyclopedic and important a subject than a dislike of gross food. (I must say I'm slightly dismayed by the choice of random examples...all we need is a comparison of Hungarians to tripe...) ;-) jk K. Lásztocska 14:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
    Oh, don't take Good Soldier Švejk as a historical canon. While there are certainly anti- sentiments against every nation in the world untils they are backed by sufficient body of unbiased research they are not Wikipedia bussiness. Pavel Vozenilek 18:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: low quality mix of historical events /wo context and items recently printed in media. This constitutes 'original research'. It is not task of Wikipedia to invent "anti-{every nation on the Earth}-sentiment" kind of articles. Pavel Vozenilek 16:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - for peace sake but only together with all the other anti-articles. There is more than enough battle-ground articles without these. Zello 23:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, however, only if all the other "anti-x" articles go as well (except established ones such as anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism).Osli73 08:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep, this is an important topic, and the article is well referenced.AlexanderPar 09:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: Guys, why do you want to delete the anti X-articles? This article is sourced (like many other anti X )and informative. It took a lot of work from many people to collect all of this information. The article should be improved, and the POV parts should be removed.Baxter9 14:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.