Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anti-Bosniak sentiment

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep `'mikka (t) 21:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Bosniak sentiment

This AfD seems never to have been listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, and this page wasn't created properly. I've now completed the listing process. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The article refers to a neologism, with no base in the real world. Its content refers to Original Research. It was only created after its creator engaged in an edit war and then lost a second AfD vote on the Serbophobia article, clearly done as an ad hominem to produce an hostile reaction.

Asterion 18:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Strong keep. I will not bother to be anything but blunt here: these accusations are ridiculous and reflect nothing more than a personal resentment certain users have against me following previous disagreements. This article was not created in response to the article Serbophobia: An original link to it had been created in mid-January, long before I had gotten involved in the matter. It is not a neologism: it does not refer to any newly created word but is a simple NPOV title that adequately describes a social phenomenon that is very much alive and real in the Balkans today. Futhermore, it is definitely not original research: it does not create primary sources, but is a case of "research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and/or secondary sources", which, according to wikipeda guidelines, is "strongly encouraged." All the key information in the article is referenced with credible sources (BBC, Human Rights Watch, etc.), and the evidence I have presented and the quality of the work I have done are, I believe, this article's best defense. I resent the allegations made about my supposedly "ad hominem" intent (I had honestly requested User:Dado's assistance because of his calm and rational approach to constructing quality articles on similar subjects, and he has responded positively) as well as accusations that I have engaged in an edit war (On the article in question, I have repeatedly asked the opposing side to discuss matters on the talk page and cite their sources, to no avail). This is a subject that any objective observer will agree has a place on Wikipedia (see precedent of Anti-Japanese sentiment) and shows promise of one day becoming a good article. Should this article be deleted from Wikipedia? With all that I have just said in mind, I think the answer is crystal clear: NO. Live Forever 20:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: I apology for describing the creation of the article as an ad hominem. I now doubt this was your intention indeed. Nevertheless, I still find the timing quite odd but do not assume bad faith. You have shown willingness to edit the most controversial parts of the article to minimise POV clashes. Asterion 21:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• Strong keep. Anti-Bosniak sentiment is definately a real phenomenon in the Balkans. It is not invented original research, and certainly has documentation in a wide variety of sources spanning not only Bosniak publications, but also the works of neighbouring nations. --Thewanderer 04:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

  Comment. Whether or not the phenomenon exists is not under scrutiny. The encyclopedic value is. There are many things which exist which are not encyclopedic (Anti-Belgian sentiment). The term itself seems reasonably unused, as google returns a whopping 3 hits. The Minister of War ^(Peace) 21:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

  Comment. Irrelevent, because the title of the article in question is not a term (like "Polonoophobia") but a neutral title to describe a notable phenomenon. As for its encyclopedic value, I think the existence of social unrest, genocide and terrorism against Bosniaks says enough. Live Forever 22:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Strong keep. I am Bosniak living in Bosnia. Anti-Bosniak sentiment do exist, end of story. --Mhare 14:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

• The article refers to a neologism, with no base in the real world. Only three mentions in google. This is no place for original research. Asterion 18:25, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

  Comment. I have reconsidered my vote and I am willing to give the article the benefit of doubt, even if, clearly, it was created for controversial reasons. Nevertheless, it needs a great deal of work to comply with Wikipedia own standards. Regards, Asterion 19:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

  Neutral / Very Weak Delete. Asterion 19:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. It exists, as well as "anti-Serbian sentiment" (named as Serbophobia) exists. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 18:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Exists and notable in the region. As for Anti-Belgian sentiment, it would be a really intreresting topic if someone can find reputable sources. I've never heard of it, but this may well mean just my ignorance, therefore I would very much like to read about it. `'mikka (t) 18:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Haha! Touché! Belgians are often ridiculed as being stupid by the Duthc, though like I said, I'm not sure that warrants an article :-) Cheers, The Minister of War ^(Peace) 08:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Another bit of nationalist hysteria, like Serbophobia; unencyclopædic, but like that AfD this one will doubtless end with it being kept, as nationalists who have no idea about the criteria for Wikipedia, but who are determined to keep their little bit of Balkans conflict going will pile in and vote, giving irrelevant "reasons". --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

  Comment Seeing as I'm pretty much single-handedly responsible for the development of the article at this point, I feel like you're basically branding me a "hysterical nationalist". I've taken extra care to make certain that this article adheres to the NPOV policy of wikipedia, and have tried to answer and deal with all constructive criticism in a productive manner. Live Forever 01:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep As valid as Anti-Semitism and, for that matter, Serbophobia. It exists unfortunately. --estavisti 21:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I agree with Mel Etitis; this is balkanscruft, inviting over-inflamed passions from trigger-happy partisans who are all too eager to push one or another ethnic bias. This will probably be kept, of course, but at least we can be assured that the content will devolve to such an unencyclopedic level (as with the ridiculously juvenile article at Serbophobia referenced above which should also be expunged) so as to be mystifying to anyone who is not part of the extremely tiny, internecine debate. Eusebeus 23:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

  Comment Why do you feel "assured that the content will desolve to such an unenyclopedic level so as to be mystifying to anyone who is not part of the extremely tiny, internecine debate," when I see absolutely no evidence for this in the time that the article has been up (There hasn't even been a debate yet!). You are ignoring the tentative cooperation already being exhibited between users of various ethnic backgrounds, as well as the fact that the article is even now in its embryonic stages of higher quality than Serbophobia. Absolutely nothing bad has happened to this article so far, and I feel like you're shooting it down without even giving it a proper chance. I'd urge you, and others of the same mind, to change your notes to neutral and give this article the opportunity it deserves. Live Forever 01:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per Eusebus and Mel Etitis. Sheesh. ProhibitOnions 00:05, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as inherently POV, I think. Stifle 00:41, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

  Comment Well, the article references a variety of credible sources, ranging from European Union institutions to the Human Rights Watch, so could you please explain how the article is inherently POV? And if this article is inherently POV, then why are similar articles such as Anti-Japanese sentiment considered perfectly fine (never even being listed for deletion)? Live Forever 01:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. After some consideration , I think it might be an interesting article. I would especially like to see it grow as part of a series, possibly with help of the editors on Serbophobia. Would do the entire encyclopedia a world of good. The Minister of War ^(Peace) 08:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete how can there be anti-Bosniak sentiment when hardly anyone in the world even knows what "Bosniaks" are? Serbophobia is entirely different because it can be argued that it exists due to many people having a negative view of Serbs after the Serbs made international news throughout much of the 90's because of the Balkan wars. Furthermore, "anti-Bosniak sentiment" returns 2 (two) hits in google, and one of them is from Wikipedia. A paragraph about it in "Bosnian nationalism" might be acceptable, but I don't really see the point of a separate article about it. Besides, the examples of "anti-Bosniak sentiment" given in the article (ie vandalism of mosques, grafiti saying "death to Islam", etc) seem more like examples of Islamophobia than Bosniakophobia. Btw Islamophobia is also being nominated for deletion. Edrigu 15:20, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

  Comment Yet again, the google search is irrelevent because the name of the article is not a specific term (as is "Serbophobia") but a NPOV title to describe a social phenomenon of encyclopedic value. Also: why does a phenomenon have to be internationally notable to warrant an article on wikipedia? Thousands of perfectly fine topics exist on various subjects that are relatively unknown outside of certain parts of the world. Anti-Bosniak sentiment exists and is quite visible in the West Balkans, and thus deserves a place on wikipedia. Furthermore, your analysis of the examples cited in the article completely misses the point. Religion and ethnicity are closely interwined in the Balkans, and Islamophobic expressions are simply compounded on top of existing ethnic prejudices (as noted in the report for the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia). This is why there are many instances of "Islamophobic" expression towards Turks and Albanians in Greece, while the country is simultaneously supportive of Palestine in the middle-eastern conflict. Is it fair to describe such things as mere Islamophobia when they are specifically targeted at one ethnicity? I don't think so. Live Forever 17:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Strong keep per reasons above. --demicx 19:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep It is interesting to see some users who have voted for article Serbophobia and who are now changing their standards to delete this article. Article does need some work but it is a keeper. Also per statements above. --Dado 22:55, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
  • As well as some users (including you) who was against article Serbophobia are for this article. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 05:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
    • If the standard is that Serbophobia article has encyclopedic value than this one has it too. --Dado 15:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Whatever, you said that Serbophobia should be deleted as well as that this article should be kept. And you implicitly accuse others for nationalism :)))) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 05:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
        • I hate to get involved in a side-argument, but I have to point out that there is a BIG difference between "Anti-Serb Sentiment" and "Serbophobia". The very title of the "phobia" article is inherently POV, and if this article was named "Bosniakophobia" instead then I'd be voting to delete it. Live Forever 18:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
          • I have to say, I disagree. I still remember, here in the UK, how when Jill Dando was killed, all the papers were going on about it was "the evil Serbs who did it". There are many other examples in the press. Even today, I still get nasty faces if I say I'm going on holiday to Serbia. In the case of Britain, the so-called Journalism of Attachment, is very much to blame for this "phobia" (not in the clinical sense, of course...) Regards, Asterion 20:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
• Strong keep --EmirA 18:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Neutral title, verifiable content. Mukadderat 22:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
• Keep These sort of attitudes do exist, and the events described in the article certainly did occur. One more thing- where's the Srebrenica massacre in the article ? Teccen 00:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral heavily leaning towards Keep Even if it was created as a defence to Serbophobia; so what? All nations are hated by representatives from some nations, including the Bosniak. The only thing that I object is that a total of only 15 Google Search results are presented.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.