Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrew Brackman

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep, great improvements to the article during AFD demonstrate that clearly meets the main notaiblity criterion at WP:BIO of significant coverage in reliable sources. Davewild (talk) 10:16, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Andrew Brackman

Andrew Brackman (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

"nn rookie league minor league player, drafted this year, very unlikely to reach the majors now that he had Tommy John surgery that early in his "career", no indepentent sources to meet WP:N" *ndsah; as written by Secret (talk · contribs) [1]. Anonymous user disagrees so I am listing it on AFD. hbdragon88 (talk) 03:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment This is the 2nd AFD, see the first one at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Andrew Brackman for more comments. MrPrada (talk) 03:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• Strong keep. First round draft pick, storied college career, the arm surgery is a story in and of itself as well. There are secondary sources up the wazoo for this, no need to delete, just to improve. MrPrada (talk) 05:25, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Weak delete– player doesn't seem to meet any of the project's notability guidelines at this time, although I believe that he eventually will. And for the record, he was selected late in the first round (30th overall in 32 first-round picks), so it's not like he was in the top two. Ksy92003 (talk) 06:32, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep. The article must be worked on to add detail, but regardless, the majority of the first round draft picks have Wiki articles despite not yet having any MLB experience. Furthermore, the number of independent articles covering Brackman is quite large.BWH76 (talk) 12:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
  • WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. 01:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Secret (talk • contribs)
• Delete as nn. No Major League stats because no Major League appearances. Fails WP:ATHLETE. Sting au Buzz Me... 12:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - Minor league baseball is a professional baseball league which would satisfy WP:ATHLETE.BWH76 (talk) 12:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Another Comment - Brackman is also listed on the Yankees' 40 man roster, each member of which has a Wikipedia entry. I suspect (without checking each) that the players listed on every MLB team's 40 man roster has a Wiki entry.BWH76 (talk) 12:41, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
      • Comment Minor league is not generally considered high enough. Nyttend (talk) 14:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
        • Comment Notability does not come from WP:ORG for individuals. He is notable because of the primary and secondary sources written about him, and meets all requirements for WP:BIO. Easy keep. MrPrada (talk) 16:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete no evidence that he's in the 40 man roster, and about 90% of all players drafted doesn't make the major leagues. Right now he's an injured rookie league pitcher, and players who are in the low minors are never notable, and there is prior consensus, yes there are a couple of sources but not much in secondary sources, like mlb.com is a primary source, and the rest just proves that he's a minor leaguer. Secret ^account 01:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment There are plenty of sources from the International Herald Tribune in France to the New York Times for both his football and baseball accomplishments, the surgery, the NC State years, the Yankees, and even this year's spring training: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18]. Also the official 40-man roster lists Brackman so there is evidence. AfD should close per WP:SNOW. MrPrada (talk) 02:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• Why should the debate close per WP:SNOW? Not that this is a numbers game (it isn't), but currently there are three votes for delete and two for keep. It's still very much "up for grabs". Ksy92003 (talk) 03:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

My understanding of WP:SNOW is that if there is enough evidence to support a conclusion, the debate should be closed (i.e., if the vote is 7-1 "Keep", but the lone dissenter establishes that the article clearly fails BLP, the article is deleted per SNOW). It's not a policy or even a guideline, but I think the primary objections that he fails WP:N/V have been addressed. MrPrada (talk) 05:44, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• I don't see enough evidence at this time to warrant a conclusion to the debate. For example, he hasn't met any of the notability guidelines (not requirements) at Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball#Players, and Brackman hasn't done anything significant media-wise (just the fact that he's listed on MLB.com or the Yankees website I don't think is enough as far as "significant media coverage" goes). Ksy92003 (talk) 07:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• Here are a few independent sources to show his "signficant media coverage": ESPN article about Brackman; Baseball America article about Brackman; CBS article about Brackman; Sports Illustrated article about Brackman. These are just a few that are specifically about him - I didn't include any that have only a few sentences or a paragraph on him. Furthermore, I once again say that this guy is a first-round draft pick and most of the first round draft picks over the past 8 years do have Wikipedia articles regardless of whether they made it to MLB. In other words, there is precedent for keeping this article.BWH76 (talk) 08:52, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• • Comment. No evidence that he's on the 40 man roster? Perhaps checking the official site of the Yankees would clear this up - he's the second person listed. Ooops - didn't see that this link was given above. Additionally, it might be of note to check out the previous AFD on this and other minor league baseball players, the result of which was Keep.BWH76 (talk) 09:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
    • I added a bunch of references and tried to improve the article itself. May warrant another look-see!BWH76 (talk) 18:18, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
      • I think you did a fantastic job. Well done. MrPrada (talk) 18:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MrPrada (talk) 19:00, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. This is the odd case where he may well fail the notability sub-guidelines for athletes. However, you only look to those guidelines in cases in which the subject's notability can't be determined from the basic guidelines. In this case, as has been shown, the subject has received multiple, nontrivial mentions in reliable sources per the links provided by BWH76. He is notable, and the article should be kept. Xymmax (talk) 20:47, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Second-team preseason All-American according to Baseball America. Players named to All-America teams, whether high school or college, are inherently notable. Blueboy96 00:57, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.