Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amparo High School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. Clearly no agreement has been reached on if this article should be kept or not. A merge and/or re-direct can be considered, but that would probably be better decided outside AFD. Camaron | Chris (talk) 18:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Amparo High School

Amparo High School (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

High school in the Philippines, makes no claim of notability Jeodesic (talk) 23:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

• Weak keep. There are two sources cites; perhaps some degree of notability can be found there. Bearian (talk) 02:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Does not meet WP:NOTE. The references are the Department of Education's list of all schools in the Phillipines and the school's entry in the Department's database. These are clearly not "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject" as they are brief entries in a list which every school in the Phillipines is aparantly included in and which is maintained by the organisation which is ultimately responsible for the school. A Google search of 'Amparo High School' does not provide any reliable sources [1]. --Nick Dowling (talk) 06:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - Being a high school with over 2500 students is in itself a claim of notability. The nom's "High school in the Philippines" stipulation is not a valid reason to delete an article and appears an example of systemic bias. Consensus has constantly found that high schools are notable (see WP:OUTCOMES) and there is no evidence that consensus has changed. --Oakshade (talk) 19:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment WP:OUTCOMES states that "consensus is frequently not reached" on AfDs concerning high schools, which is rather different to your statement that it says that high schools are constantly found to be notable. In lieu of a specific notability guideline (WP:SCHOOL is only a proposed guideline) each AfD on high schools needs to be treated in isolation (though obviously WP:OUTCOMES provides some guidance for the closing admin) - what references can be drawn on for this school to meet the criteria at WP:NOTE? --Nick Dowling (talk) 22:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Exactly. Consensus has not deleted high schools. --Oakshade (talk) 23:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment Um, no - articles on high schools usually survive AfDs because there is no consensus one way or the other. As there is no consensus at present for high schools to be automatically considered notable each article needs to meet WP:NOTE. As such, simply stating that its a high school and so should survive an AfD isn't sufficent as this has no basis in any existing policy and merely rests on a common AfD outcome. --Nick Dowling (talk) 23:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Um, yes. Consensus has found that if the high school and the content is verified or verifiable, it is sufficient. There are exceptions to the letter of WP:NOTE and high schools are an example of one. --Oakshade (talk) 23:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment Can you please provide a reference for that claim? - it seems to boil down to high schools being automatically notable and articles being justified if it can be proved that the school actually exists and is hence not a hoax. WP:OUTCOMES does not directly support your argument and WP:SCHOOLS is contested and yet to be adopted as policy. I've been involved in a few AfDs on high schools recently, and the thing that led to their survial was the presence of what were argued to be reliable sources external to the school (which enabled them to meet WP:NOTE), such as stories in newspapers, and not the fact that they had a website or were listed on a relevant government department's list of schools. --Nick Dowling (talk) 00:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Guess you didn't see this in the article; The proof is here. That's an actual government website. Don't know why you're claiming it's a hoax now... Unless of course you think the Philippine government is pulling a hoax. --Oakshade (talk) 00:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment Where did I say that this high school is a hoax? In my vote I stated that the article's references are a government list of schools and the school's entry in a government database and that these are not the kind of reliable sources required for the school to meet WP:NOTE. I was actually hoping that you could provide a reference for your claim that "Consensus has found that if the high school and the content is verified or verifiable, it is sufficient" as I don't believe that there is in fact a consensus view that high schools are automatically notable as you are claiming here. --Nick Dowling (talk) 03:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. It may not be as famous as Columbine High School, but hey, it's still a school and therefore notable. What it needs is expansion. Starczamora (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak delete, for high schools, it has to be notable about it (like, largest population, good academics, etc.) since not all of them are notable by default. Especially for public (government) high schools such as this. --Howard the Duck 18:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
• Weak delete per Howard. There are a lot of high schools here in the Philippines and this is one of the non-notable ones. In my opinion, only Science High Schools are notable by default on WP:OUTCOMES as they are usually created with a Republic Act. Please swat the nom with a fish for nominating the article because it is simply a "High school in the Philippines".--Lenticel ^(talk) 01:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I'd just like to make it clear for the record that the first five words are a description of the article, NOT a reason for deletion. Apologies for any confusion, Jeodesic (talk) 23:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Assuming good faith. Apology accepted. Trout returned to the water. ^_^.--Lenticel ^(talk) 01:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. —Camaron | Chris (talk) 12:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - large high school that has a significant place in its community. TerriersFan (talk) 02:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Public high schools in the Philippines always have large populations, since most of the students in a community who can't afford studying in private schools study there. --Howard the Duck 06:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. Isn't that exactly what makes them notable? Phil Bridger (talk) 20:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• Not really, if there are lots of high schools like this one, they'll all look identical and won't be as notable as the others. IMHO, public high schools would only be notable if they established anything that is notable, like the highest student population anywhere (Rizal High School), or above-average academics (Philippine Science High School System). --Howard the Duck 02:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep If this igh School was in Tempe or Hartford it would be kept, just because the Philippines has lots of large High Schools doesn't mean they shouldn't be included. Isn't this a case of systemic bias against things not North American?Moheroy (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - of course it is. It is hardier to get sources about schools outside the Anglosphere because of linguistic and cultural considerations. What is needed is a dose of common sense. I think that we should be tough on vanity article, attack pages and the numerous company and product spam that abounds Wikipedia, but to try to delete an innocuous page on a not-for-profit public high school defies belief when we have thousands of pages of CD listing (and I know WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS so don't remind me), marginal reality show contestants and all the rest. Is anyone going to criticise WP for a page on a high school? Of course not. But for hundreds of pages on porn stars, possibly. If we have any pretence of being a serious encyclopaedia we need a reality check. TerriersFan (talk) 00:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment So, what you're saying is that we should just assume that sufficent reliable sources exist for the school to pass WP:N, despite the only editor who identified themself as Philippino who's contributed to this debate stating that the school is not notable and nothing turning up in Google when 'Amparo High School' is searched? (English is one of the Philippines offical languages, so if the school is notable something should turn up there). If something turns and proves the school is notable the article can always be recreated. --Nick Dowling (talk) 07:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• • • • Comment. Uh Nick, its Filipino not Philippino. I believe high schools should meet notability regardless of nationality. I also don't think it is that large (comparing to other schools in our country), maybe more like "Average" student population.--Lenticel ^(talk) 00:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep it's a large high school, it's notable. RMHED (talk) 19:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Almost all secondary schools are notable, and considering that it is rather large (I acknowledge the fact that most Filipino High Schools are) I see no reason for this article to be deleted. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: As of now, the discussion is more on keeping the article. Now the problem for keeping the article is where to find reliable sources for public high schools in the Philippines, considering one public HS won't be covered by the media extensively unless something notable happens. So if reliable sources can't be found, how can this be an article? Think about it. --Howard the Duck 04:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.