Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allen Greenfield (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete as non-notable per WP:BIO. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 21:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allen_Greenfield

Allen_Greenfield (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Having checked all books penned by this person, they are evidently publications from various vanity presses and do not constitute genuine contributions to literature so much as exercises in vanity. Also, subject is an institutional personality of a religious organization, "OTO." Actual contributions to society as a whole are dubious. Further, claims regarding to Science Fiction Fandom contributions remain unsubstantiated as do claims of investigating various UFO-related phenomena. No second or third party information exists verifying subject's claims. — MensKeperRa (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• See also: first nomination.
• Found this in the first nomination. Procedural listing. MER-C 07:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete In the few months since the AfD, absolutely no cleanup has taken place and the significant edits are still made by the subject himself. [1] The whole content is unverified as it is written by the subject himself, in complete disregard of our guidelines regarding conflicts of interest. His importance as an author is not supported by any reliable third-party source. We can't just continue to have articles survive AfD with the promise
  that they'll be cleaned up if that cleanup is never done. If this is kept, then the admin should clear the whole unreferenced content and bring this back down to a stub. Pascal.Tesson 07:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
• deleteI see no reason why being a member of a religious organization is a minus, and I think his claim to have been a past-president of the Atlanta Science Fiction Organization probably could be verified. Perhaps if the article were retitled: Vainest autobiography in Wikipedia it might be notable. DGG 05:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - I have had it called to my attention that the autobiographical info on, and literary style of the person who initiated the current request for deletion is a gentleman I know who has an intense *personal* dislike of me, and is motivated thereby. He has used various names, but is an occultist and math teacher from Alabama formerly associated with the same fraternity as myself. He placed several reviews of my books on Amazon.com which I requested be removed on the grounds that, while everyone has a right to an opinion, these reviews were motivated by personal dislike of the author, rather than opinions of the books in question. Amazon agreed and removed them. If this is the case here, I doubt that Wikipedia should delete any article because an individual dislikes the subject (and/or author) of this article. None of my books were published by Subsidity Publishers. Allen H Greenfield 00:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - fails WP:BIO. Who nominated the article or the motivation for doing so are not really relevant here; what's important is whether the article complies with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. The first paragraph or so seems to be a cut & paste from the only (non-reliable source, but since the author of the website seems to be the same person as the author of the article, it's probably not copyvio. -- Chondrite 08:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Keep

To address original arguments:

1) "...all books penned by this person, they are evidently publications from various vanity presses and do not constitute genuine contributions to literature so much as exercises in vanity."

I reply that to remove an article on this premise one one also need to remove all articles regarding Donatien Alphonse François de Sade (among others...many many others), who was forced to seek vanity presses or self publication in order to promulgate his research into human nature.

2) "...subject is an institutional personality of a religious organization,..."

Again, any and all references to any and all personae who have ever been "an institutional personality of a religious organization" throughout history would have to be summarily purged from Wikipedia's database.

3) "Actual contributions to society as a whole are dubious."

It is rare, indeed, that one's "contributions to society" are fully recognized during one's life span. The cases in point are too numerous to mention, and the exceptions to this are few. In fact, it is very plain that, even within a singel a single generation, a definition of being a positive contributor to society can vary greatly between one person and another. In my lifetime alone I have seen many people, and to be on point, writers, who I believe to have been wonderous like Thomas Pynchon, who many people think is simply long winded while I feel that some of the authors some of my friends read, like Ayn Rand, are simply trite.

Who is correct? All of us are. That is just the nature of personal taste. Do I think Ayn rand should be removed from wikipedia? Nope...I wouldn't assume to speak for anyone but myself. But here is one thing for sure...If I don't want to read something, I do the easiest thing in t he world. I don't.

In conclusion, the stated arguments are not, I believe, sufficient to warrant deletion of an article from wikipedia.

I, personally, have not read, nor do I intend to read, the article in question; but it sounds like a personal issue and I would suggest that the individual who initiated this request look deeply into their personal motives rather than than avoid or whitewash them.

Peace to everyone, and never forget, "You know how dumb the average person is? Well, by definition, half of 'em are even dumber than THAT." -J.R. Dobbs

As always, and no matter what, Fear is a Dog

I have known Allen H. Greenfield for a number of years and have always found him to have an extraordinary amount of integrity. I have severe questions about the person who wants to remove Allen's entry. I vote to keep it.

Peace,
Gene Steinberg
Co-Host
The Paracast
http://www.the.paracast.com

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.