Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allen Gore

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was DELETE. dbenbenn | talk 14:42, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Allen Gore

The grandfather of Al Gore. I nominate it for deletion not because I personally think it should be deleted—although I lean in that direction—but because I think that it should be looked at as a case and would be useful as a precedent for similar articles. Everyking 13:56, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• No vote, but isn't 8 hours from creation to VFD notice a little fast? --Calton 15:04, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Uh, no, it's not. Lots of articles get VfD'd within minutes. Everyking 15:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
    • Uh, yes it is. Obvious nonsense, obvious vanity, and borderline/actual libel; those rightly -- or should rightly -- be listed ASAP, to discourage trolls. But a stub, its virtual ink hardly dry on the virtual page? Practically, the creator should have made some case from the get-go for notability, but to swoop in and slap a VFD tag on something ambiguous without allowing even minimal time for expansion, it seems to me, discourages new editors -- a general violation of don't bite the newcomers. Still no vote, BTW.--Calton 02:49, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Wikipedia is not a genealogy database, and, to quote Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Alberta Williams King: "Most notable people don't deserve separate articles on close family members unless they are notable in their own right". Albert Gore, Sr. establishes notability in the person's own right. Allen Gore does not. And you just know that someone is eventually going to redlink "Claiborn Charles Gore" and "Elizabeth Robinson", causing the inappropriate genealogy database to grow yet further. Delete and remove the dangling hyperlinks from Albert Gore, Sr.. Uncle G 15:13, 2005 Feb 11 (UTC)
  • Someone already did link them, actually, before I removed the links. One thing I think about, though, is the question of whether deleting such an article stunts Wikipedia's natural growth. If different people are indicating an interest in starting these articles, is that in itself a de facto indicator of notability? I don't know. I think that for exceptionally famous people, arguably including Al Gore, close relatives within one generation are probably notable enough by association to warrant inclusion. But within two generations? I don't know. Seems like we'd have to draw the line somewhere. Everyking 15:19, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Not notable. Martg76 16:39, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Being a realtive of a notable person does not automaticaly make one notable. And as for Everyking's idea that the creation of the article indicates notability, well, if that's true we might as well shut down VfD and give vanity and vandals run of the place. -R. fiend 18:46, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Which is a massive oversimplification of what I said. I did nominate the article for deletion, after all. Everyking 19:35, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: Everyking did say "If different people are indicating an interest in starting these articles", which is a point that is addressed in the deletion policy (and which is distinct from "if several related people keep re-creating the same article" and "if someone out there is interested enough to start the article".) However, does anything indicate that there was more than one person who thought Allen Gore needed an article? -- Antaeus Feldspar 20:28, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I think an interest in creating articles like this is more of an indication of the editor's obsession with completism than an indication of the subject's notability. -Satori 21:53, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. He might not be notable, but the information is verifiable and would likely be of interest to readers. - SimonP 22:07, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, being a grandfather of someone notable does not make the grandfather automatically notable. The article doesn't mention any achievements by Allen Gore. We've been through this before on the MLK family and relatives (voted Delete). My vote stays the same on these. Megan1967 23:13, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete.Al Gore's father was as U.S. Senator and therefore notable, but from the article, it doesn't look like Grandpa Gore was notable except as the grandfather and father of prominent politicians, and I don't think that is enough. I'd revise my vote if more information is developed during the next few days. --BM 00:49, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Barring demonstration of notability in his own right, merge and redirect to Albert Gore, Sr.. I wouldn't be surprised if he is more notable than this suggests: quite a distinguished family. -- Jmabel | Talk 00:53, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • A Google search turns up very little, all based on his being the grandfather of Al Gore. As best I can tell, he was just an ordinary guy. Everyking 01:20, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• From Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not - Genealogical or biographical entries, or phonebook entries. Biography articles should only be for people with some sort of notoriety or achievement. Delete Average Earthman 02:01, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Merge to Al Gore and Delete I don't see a reason for a redirect as the person is not notable in his own right. Courtland 03:58, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)
  • Merging content is already a reason to redirect. You should give a reason 'not' to redirect. Kappa 08:41, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, I don't we need to take "merge" too literally. On a real merge, you have to worry about the history, for GFDL purposes. But when what is being merged is one sentence, keeping the history isn't much of an issue. In the process of working it into the other article, the sentence probably gets transformed a bit, anyway. In those cases, "Merge" is more "Delete, and work the content in somewhere else". --BM 13:17, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. According to this Washington Post article, Allen Gore was a humble farmer from Possum Hollow Tennessee. Albert Gore Sr was the first member of the family to go to college.[1] Unfortunately, Allen Gore is not notable other than the father of Albert Gore Sr. and the grandfather of Albert Gore Jr. Capitalistroadster 09:21, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
• Kudos to Everyking for proposing this as a test case and doing so in a very professional manner. I also can find no evidence that he was notable in his own right. Delete with a soft recommendation to then redirect to Albert Gore, Sr. in order to discourage recreation of the article. Rossami (talk) 23:54, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.