Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Air Prishtina

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete as no sources ever materialized W.marsh 17:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Air Prishtina

Air Prishtina (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

As pointed out on the talk page and confirmed by the company's website (in German), this is not an airline, but a travel agency. It does not operate aircraft, it charters them. No apparent notability under WP:CORP and no sources, either. Sandstein 19:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete in accordance with nomination. The company operates no aircraft, holds no licences. All flights are subcontracted out to XL Airways and Edelweiss Air and operated under their codes, aircraft, etc. It is basically a booking service only. --Russavia 03:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep This is a new airline, just starting up in a place that isn't even its own country yet. It certainly has aircraft (see http://www.airplanephotos.de/Photogallery/A-319_321/0211_2.jpg). It operates them under other airline's Air Operating Certficates and codes until it gets its own. This is a new airline and should have a page like any other new or proposed airline. Harry was a white dog with black spots 08:42, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• According to this discussion, the pictured airbus HB-IJZ was painted with the "Air Prishtina" livery for a few months in 2004, but the charter deal was apparently cancelled and the airbus now flies under the colours of another company. Sandstein 08:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Again, this is for political reasons. The Serbian authorities will not allow Air Pristina to operate under its own AOC, and they are the aviation authorities in Kosovo at the moment. Until that changes, Air Pristina is forced to operate as it does. Rather than deleting the article, it should be expanded to reflect these political realities.

Well, yes, but it's still not an airline, it's a charter company. The article suggests otherwise. At any rate, per WP:CORP, we would need substantial coverage in independent reliabel sources for notability. The article has no sources at all, which is also a WP:V problem. Sandstein 11:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It may be a new 'company' but an airline does not make it. Not even a start-up airline. It is what is commonly known as a paper airline, in that it operates no aircraft (even if they are painted in its livery), they have no crews, they have no AOC, they are not recognised by the ICAO/IATA in that they have no codes of their own. They are no different from Kosova Airlines (that was another paper airline which was operated by Hamburg International). I would stand by my delete stance, although it could be mentioned on Edelweiss Air and XL Airways (German) website that operations are undertaken to Pristina under the Air Prishtina name on behalf of the tour operator. --Russavia 13:29, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The question is, would they be operating as a normal airline without the political interference from Belgrade? The answer is clearly "yes", as they have tried to operate under their own banner in the past. Therefore they deserve a page with an explanation of why they are not able to operate normally. Serbian politics should not be a factor as to whether they have a page or not. Harry was a white dog with black spots 13:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Serbian politics, no. Notability, yes. I see no independent reliable sources that mention this company, and WP:CORP (and WP:V) require them. Sandstein 14:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Even if that were true, they clearly existed in the past, given the photos of planes in their livery. Therefore they deserve a page for historical reasons if nothing else, despite the fact that they do continue to operate as best they can given the political climate, and will emerge as a "proper" airline again when they are allowed to do so. It is all about Serbian politics. Harry was a white dog with black spots 15:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I hope you are able the read german. This is the presentation of Air Prishtina (directly from the website): <copyright violation removed, please use a link>. And here is the "Timetable" (directly from the website): <copyright violation removed, please use a link>. So delete this page!HAJ 13:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.14.178.73 (talk • contribs)

Yes, I can read German. I also know a bit about the history of this airline and the political climate it operates under. The fact is, they did try to operate as an airline (evidence in the photo above). For that reason alone, they deserve an entry as a historical airline. The fact that they are being forced to operate using partner airlines for now because of political interference is also noteworthy. By all means, rewrite the page to reflect the current reality, but don't delete it, and don't vandalise other pages using multiple IP addresses. Harry was a white dog with black spots 12:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

• weak keep: I won't make a judgement if this is technically an airline (the specifics need to be discussed in the article of course), but it seems to pass our notability threshold, already precisely because of the political ramifications. At best merge into Economy of Kosovo as a fair attempt to operate a "Kosovo Airline" in spite of the unsettled international status of the region. dab (𒁳) 11:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• Keep This is an airline! If you translate the German verion of the wesite it will tell you that they have a fleet of 4 aircrafts and they have destinations! So that means that it is an airline that opperates in kosovo wich is a province in Serbia wich also mean that it is an airline in Serbia and NOT a charter company!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Euro.Serb (talk • contribs).

Where on the website does it say that they own 4 aircraft? Sandstein 13:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

If it is an 'airline' of Serbia, then surely they have an air operators certificate issued by the Serbian authorities. Some evidence of this certificate needs to be presented to establish the assertion that it is an airline, and not merely a travel agency using a name to pass itself off as an airline. --Russavia 23:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

This has been addressed. They set up as an airline, bought and painted planes to operate, but were then refused an AOC for political reasons. Rather than give up, they have continued operating using partner airlines until the situation in Kosovo changes, and Kosovans have self-determination to issue their own AOCs. Exposing these political machinations is a good enough reason to give Air Prishtina an entry as far as I am concerned. There have been lots of cases of Ailines using other companies AOCs to start up. Easyjet did it for example. Harry was a white dog with black spots 11:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• Delete The website says: Düsseldorf, Cologne, Munich and Stuttgart with XL Airways Germany and Zurich and Geneva with Edelweiss Air. The schedule consists of EDW (Edelweiss Air) and GXL (Star XL German Airlines) and some Germanwings and Air-Berlin flights! There is no information about a fleet! Air Prishtina is like Kosova Airlines, simply a tour operator who acts a bit like an airline to combine the several charter flights to an from Pristina! HAJ 15:23, 6 June 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.14.178.73 (talk • contribs)

Then I take it you mean to suggest to delete the article, not to keep it? Sandstein 14:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Note: This opinion now changed to "delete" by an anonymous editor. Sandstein 21:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• I've had I nice talk with one of Air Prishtina's employees. He makes very clear that Air Prishtina is certainly not an airline. Air Prishtine is a kind of tour operators, and it's aim is to combine the charter flights to and from Pristina on one single booking platform. He makes also clear that Air Prishtina has no plane, no licenses and that only XL Airways Germany, Edelweiss Air, Hello, Air-Berlin and Germanwings operate to Pristina and that they use the Air Prishtina booking platform! So, that was an information directly from Air Prishtina, that means: Delete the article! HAJ 21:11, 7 June 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.14.178.73 (talk • contribs)

Meaningless post by an anonymous serial page vandal. Please provide the name and contact details of the person you spoke to so that we can get independent confirmation. Please stop vandalising other pages until the matter is settled here. Harry was a white dog with black spots 12:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The question is, who is a vandal. I only correct wrong information, because Wikipedia is a worldwide Encyclopedia and the people should read correct information. You are the one who is a vandal, not me!!! Call the Air Prishtina headquarter, than you will see who is right. I am working in the tourism and air travel business, and Air Prishtina is well known here, so I know what I am talking about HAJ 19:46, 9 June 2007

It is vandalism because you are removing a link to a page you think shouldn't exist before that decision has been made, and doing so using a variety of anonymous IP addresses. If there is a consensus to remove the article, then reference to it can be removed from other pages. To remove it before then is vandalism. Harry was a white dog with black spots 20:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.