Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adjar language

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge and Delete. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adjar language

Adjar language (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Blatant original research. Not a single source provided. There is not such a language. The title itself is in contradiction with the lead sentence: "Adjar language... is a dialect of Georgian language." The rest of the article is virtually unreadable.--Kober^Talk 05:33, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Weak delete. There doesn't seem to be any English evidence of the language's existence, although this may be one of those cases where we'll have to rely on sources in Turkish or Georgian or something along those lines. The Turks certainly seem to think the language exists (at their Wikipedia), but I don't have enough Turkish to figure out where they're getting their information from. If it is a dialect, then calling it a "language" is perhaps not the best idea. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I'm a native speaker of Georgian and quite familiar with the Adjara region. Adjaran is a dialect of the Georgian language. It formerly contained many Turkish loanwords since Adjara and some other Georgian lands had been part of the Ottoman Empire until 1878. Linguists don't consider Adjaran to be a separate language though. --Kober^Talk 06:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for that. I should've checked your userpage straight off the mark. If it's a legitimate dialect, should we perhaps rename it as "Adjar dialect" (or something along those lines, I'm not sure quite what the best adjective is) and write up an article on the distinguishing features of this dialect vis a vis regular Georgian? I'd expect that as well as the former loanwords (are they all gone now?), there could well be grammatical differences as well. I don't have much access to anything on Georgian grammar, so I'll have to rely on your work here. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm far from being an expert on linguistics, but I'll try to prod people that have more info on the subject. Also, I think there is very little to write about the Adjarian dialect in a separate article. I would rather suggest creating the Dialects of Georgian language article and merging Adjarian dialect with it. --Kober^Talk 07:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

As my hero famously said, "Also good". It's probably showing my ignorance of your country, but I'm genuinely surprised that there can be multiple dialects in such a small area (still, there are mountains, so maybe that's the reason). If you end up with any rough translations or other examples of slightly odd English, I'd be happy to help out with polishing the results. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

*Strong delete as a nom.--Kober^Talk 06:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• • Comment - as the nominator, you're assumed to be advocating the deletion of the article. There's no need to add a "strong" (or any other kind, for that matter) delete to the discussion as well. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, but it should be mentioned as a dialect in Georgian language. --Akhilleus (talk) 06:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per lack of reliable sources on the subject. Khoikhoi 06:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
• Merge with Georgian language (though sources are a must) Suriel1981 10:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
• DeleteAl-Bargit 12:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC) It's simply Georgian as spoken by Muslims
• Merge to Georgian language#Dialects for the moment. Might be notable but I'm not really qualified to find sources. Don't see any papers in English specifically discussing this dialect. (The Turkish article cites two books; looks like neither is in Turkish; given the year and location of publication, I doubt either is easily available on short notice). Wasn't very hard to verify, though; 2 minutes on Google books gave a citation, for example. Anyway, dispute over whether something is a language or a dialect isn't really a reason to delete or call something WP:OR. cab 13:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I just took a look at the Turkish version of the article. The two books cited are actually Georgian books published in Batumi. One of them is called Kartuli Zgaprebi, i.e. Georgian Fairy Tales (I’ve read this one many years ago :)) and the other’s title is Adjaruli Dialecti, i.e., Adjarian Dialect. Neither of them contains a reference to the Adjar as a separate language.--Kober^Talk 14:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I've given a heads-up to WP:Caucasia who apparently include languages within their scope to ask them to look at the article and see if anything can/should be done. Suriel1981 13:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep - Since its a off shoot of another language it should stay 100% it just needs to be expanded. Artaxiad 13:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

If it's possible to be expanded then I will change my vote to keep. Unfortunately it's not my area of expertise. Suriel1981 14:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Merge LGMᚂ 14:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Kober is correct. This is simply a dialect of Georgian, not a language in its own right. --Folantin 09:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. I wanted show you two articles from Turkish Wikipedia (Adjar language and South Kipchakya). In the bottom of these articles are some references. But, these references have not one word about these articles. For example, the name of South Kipchakya isn’t existence in these books. I have these books. That references say noting also about Adjarian, is a language or not. The reference books are here only as their names, that’s all. Of course Adjarian is not a separate language, only a dialect of Georgian. But Turkish Wikipedia keeps like that articles. See please, in Turkish are two articles about Georgian language (Kartça and Gürcüce). Georgian is called Gürcüce in Turkish, not Kartça. That user, who wrote Kartça, is changing all articles about Georgia, it’s very clear. And Turkish Wikipedia doesn’t want to see this. Sure, delete Adjar language. --Ali Akbar Tabrizi 22:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I understand you (I think). I guess you have started these two articles to show that their Turkish equivalents are based on pseudohistory. Unfortunately, we cannot change anything in Turkish Wikipedia, but we will try our best to ensure the accuracy of Georgia-related articles in en.wiki.--Kober^Talk 05:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• Merge given the current article size. There are further references available if anyone has access [1] is one. The trouble, as usual with names that do not use the Latin alphabet, is in the transliteration. Just on Wikipedia this dialect/language is called Ajar, Ajarian, Adjar, Adjarian in various articles. Nuttah68 12:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.