Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2005 Belgian urban violence

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No Consensus (default to keep} Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 05:36, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] 2005 Belgian urban violence

Unencyclopedic. Wikipedia is not a daily newspaper. Karl Stas 20:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Strong delete. Highly speculative; this article attempts to link a series of crimes to the 2005 French riots. There has been no major credible source as of yet that has described any events in Belgium as part of a connected series à la the current twelve-day riots in France. Without that, the article is, as KS notes, just a listing of some random crimes in Belgium in the last few days. Sdedeo 21:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong and speedy keep this is just an attempt at censorship. freestylefrappe 22:17, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Censorship??? Is Wikipedia to relate every fait divers in the world? Should we copy the content of our morning newspaper into Wikipedia articles? Moreover, the shooting incident in the metro is not even remotely related to the riots in France.
There have been some new copycat arsons in Brussels this evening, but as of now nothing to be compared with the wave of riots in France. Arsons, acts of vandalism, clashes between youth gangs with the police etc. happen in any major city; they may be news-worthy, but not encyclopedia-worthy. I might add that a few years ago, there have been real riots involving immigrant youths in Antwerp; similar incidents have also happened in Brussels in the past, though on a much smaller scale and less destructive than in France now. - Karl Stas 22:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Your attempt at censoring the truth is blatant and the rationale is ridiculous. freestylefrappe 00:16, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
this is sarcasm, right? right? Clearly there cannot be a wikipedia article every time somebody is arrested, shot at or run over in Belgium. 130.60.142.65 11:45, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete speculative and pointless. I've seen the Belgian riot police attending similar incidents before, this has nothing provable to do with France (and even if it did it would go in that article not as a separate one) Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] :: AfD? 22:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Speculative, OR, POV, transient (and thus unencyclopedic)...by all means, censor it right off of Wikipedia. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 02:48, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Speedy keep or merge It can now be clearly confirmed that the unrest has spread beyond France's borders. See, e.g., MarketWatch-- The worst civil unrest seen in France in decades entered a 12th night Monday, as riots that began outside of Paris spread to nearly 300 cities across the country and sparked similar violent outbursts in Belgium and Germany. [1] 172 | Talk 03:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong keep. This and outbreaks of similar unrest across what is now being styled 'Eurabia' need to be documented. The rewriting and bowdlerism of political history to suit the narrow minded agenda of the allegedly 'politically correct' has no place in the writing of history or an encyclopedia.Sjc 04:17, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • keep. This is absolutely relevant to the current situation in Europe and in France. --CltFn 04:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep somewhere and clean up. Whether it is kept at its current place or merged somewhere else doesn't matter to me. This is, however, valuable information, per 172. Jacqui ★ 06:41, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep it. Clean it up, but keep it. Publications across the world are acknowledging that the violence could be spreading. Kade 06:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
    which is duly noted at 2005_French_riots#Possible_Spread_to_other_countries. That doesn't warrant a "Possible_Spread_of_2005_French_riots_to_other_countries article, let alone one on Belgium in particular. If we had created a new article every time the riots spread to a new town, we would have 500 independent articles now. This is ridiculous, delete as speedy. 130.60.142.65 11:47, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep notable copycat violence. Klonimus 07:06, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: If this is an extension of the French problem, surely it should be covered in a single article? - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] :: AfD? 08:23, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep If not directly associated to the civil unrest in France, it is at least a notable copycat event. -LouieS
  • delete (and recreate if it grows to notable proportions). As of now, this is covered in the article on the French riots. dab (ᛏ) 11:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment all mainstream news sources have referred to the riots as either a separate incident entirely or "copycat" events. This info should not be covered in the French riots page. freestylefrappe 18:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. While the reported events are provided with proper references, each and every reference comes from the same local, non-English news web site. Moreover, the way these events are gathered into one article is deceptive and speculative, i.e. POV. There is no such thing as a "2005 Belgian urban violence" generally agreed upon in the mainstream international media. --Edcolins 21:11, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep While the analysis is speculative, the statistics are relevant. As for those who say that the incidents in Belgium are not relevant because they are copycat events, could it not also be said that every act of vandalism and violence in France subsequent to that first incident in Clichy-sous-Bois is also a copycat event?
  • I thought that was the point? That apart form an accident of geographical boundary, they are in every sense part of the same event? - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 20:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Keep it, but it needs to be cleaned up and updated. The table is out of date and needs to be updated. Some images or graphics showing areas affected need to be added. 202.74.219.39 20:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
vote disregarded by closing admin. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 05:27, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and no merge. This would be a good sub-article to the French Riots( a very large topic) if it was rewritten in Prose, with a timeline at the bottom. Falphin 21:00, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - Wikipedia covers this from an encylopedic view, while Wikinews fulfils the newscasting category. -- Natalinasmpf 04:43, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.