Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/10th Kingdom character articles

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep all - AfD does not govern merges and it is up to those supporting a merge to actually carry it out. --Sam Blanning(talk) 00:30, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 10th Kingdom character articles

Each of these articles about characters from a television movie is written almost completely from an in-universe perspective with no citations. Each has one or more sections devoted to trivia, "facts", speculation, and extraordinarily banal quotes. Attempts to remove such sections are reverted by the articles' author. One of the articles is a duplicate. These articles should all be deleted and merged into the main article, The 10th Kingdom, which could use some work itself. Chris Griswold 22:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Neutral. These aren't high-quality articles, but I know for a fact that 10th Kingdom has a fanbase. I'm not sure how big it is, though. In any sense, "merge and delete" is not a valid vote because it doesn't comply with the GNU Free Documentation License. Though AFD is unnecessary if the goal is just to merge the articles, I support keeping the AFD live to develop consensus on 10th Kingdom's notability and the suitability of keeping the individual articles, because a consensus to delete could very well emerge. szyslak (t, c, e) 00:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Stubify, merge and redirect per Vary and MacGyverMagic. szyslak (t, c, e) 09:32, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete all There needs to be a compelling reason to extend daughter articles for material that is, in and of itself, rather obscure. Review of these articles does not provide that kind of substantiation, making this essentially fancruft. Eusebeus 04:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep (See addendum below) Too long to merge into one article (except the duplicates for Virginia, of course). Add {{unsourced}} and cleanup templates as necessary, and try to establish communication with the chronic reverter on talk pages to discuss removing trivialities, but use Wikipedia:Resolving disputes if said reverter refuses to cooporate. Deletion at this point in time would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If they're ultimately pruned enough to be merged without excessive length, go ahead. Otherwise, no big deal. Plenty of major characters in fictional stories have their own articles. --Icarus (Hi!) 04:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Addendum: Keep or merge. They're long enough that I'd prefer for them to be cleaned up and then re-evaluated to see if they've become short enough for a merge, but I'd rather see them shortened and merged (prematurely, in my opinion) per Vary than than deleted altogether. --Icarus (Hi!) 16:26, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete all Shorten, merge and redirect. I loved "The 10th Kingdom". I actually applauded at the end of the final installment. The performances were superb. But Wikipedia has no articles on Natasha Rostova, Andrey Bolkonsky and Pierre Bezukhov. No way should there be individual articles on the characters from "The 10th Kingdom". Gildir 23:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm not familiar with War and Peace, but if those are main characters then they certainly could have articles here. Plenty of main characters from classic works have their own aricles (e.g. Winston Smith, John the Savage), so why not them? More applicable to the 10th Kingdom, many contemporary characters have articles too. I don't see why certain characters not having articles (yet, at least) means that other characters shouldn't, either. --Icarus (Hi!) 19:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Vary | Talk 16:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Relisting: two deletes, one neutral, one keep, one merge (the nominator). -- Vary | Talk 16:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Merge intros only Stubify and merge into 10th Kingdom characters, and Redirect; merge and delete violates GFDL. The 'Official Bios' which take up most of the pages are copyvio from the official web site for the series, which now appears to be offline. Character info from The 10th Kingdom should be merged there, too - that'll go a long way towards cleaning up that page. -- Vary | Talk 16:29, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Do you know where there's an archived version of the official website so we can know exactly which parts have to be removed/re-written? --Icarus (Hi!) 19:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Calling it a "TV movie" is a bit of a stretch, as it's like 12 hours long or something (I have the DVD and it takes up 3 discs). It's at least a miniseries or a "limited series". I'd say the character articles are reasonable, as they're too big to be merged. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:12, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Merge - Only basic character info, no "trivia". The fact that these articles are long is just bceause they're filled with a re-hash of the plot and worthless trivia about the characters. Wickethewok 19:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Stubify and merge, and redirect per Vary. For characters that have only been in one work of fiction there does not need to be an entire article dedicated to them unless there are substantial claims to their importance. These articles do not have that. --Mitaphane talk 01:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep - Wikipedia is not a paper dictionary, and can easily accomodate having these entries. Having specific character entries for a story can often help aid the reader in understanding the story better. The Virginia Lewis page should be redirected to the Virginia Lewis (10th Kingdom) page, and the Huntsman (The 10th Kingdom) should be restored (somebody deleted most of the content from it), though. -Todd 03:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment the content removed from Huntsman (The 10th Kingdom) was copyvio, taken from NBC's official site. -- Vary | Talk 03:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Well, then I think we should keep these articles iff the author can write versions that don't violate copyrights. Is there any way to vote accordingly?
  • Delete all. First of all, we don't know what is and what is not copyvio. Second of all, re-writing all these articles into short paragraphs for a merge takes time. It just ain't worth it. Neither is working with the ostreperous editor through dispute resolution etc, which a couple of commenters have suggested but not volunteered to do. Finally, IT IS CRUFT. Smashy. Herostratus 03:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Slaps Herostratus with a wet fish. Not everything fictional is cruft you know. Besides, most cruft can be dealt with by excising extranuous info. - Mgm|(talk) 09:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
      • No, but this is cruft. This is not a great work of literature we are talking about, here. It's a TV miniseries that will presumably be utterly forgotten in five years or less, except by people fishing the bottom of the $0.99 bargain bin. Herostratus 16:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Shorten, merge and redirect into a List of 10th Kingdom characters per WP:FICT. While they may not warrant separate entries, there's no reason to delete them instead of merging them into a collective article. - Mgm|(talk) 09:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - I haven't changed my mind, and I'm not really keen on being asked to change my vote. --Chris Griswold 09:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.