Talk:Artistic inspiration

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W. B. Yeats was not a Romantic poet. Aeolian Harp is by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, although several poets have used the title. Please do not insert references to vanity press books. Geogre 19:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] E A Poe

I just removed Edgar Allan Poe from a list of romantic writers who believe inspiration comes from madness or whatever it said. In The Philosophy of Composition he clearly denounces that notion. Hope that helps. -Midnightdreary 04:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

It didn't say that it came from madness, but that the frenzy model was behind it. Geogre 12:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay. In Poe's "The Philosophy of Composition" he said that writing is a logical, calm experience based on a step-by-step rational process. There's no frenzy in it either. -Midnightdreary 14:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Addendum (for preservation and to show what I'm disputing): The original line said "Romantic writers such as Edgar Allan Poe... saw inspiration in terms similar to the Greeks: it was a matter of madness and irrationality. Inspiration came because the poet tuned himself to the (divine or mystical) "winds" and because he was made in such a way as to receive such visions." I'll take some time to review Poe's "Poetic Principle" to see if he contradicts his ideas in "The Philosophy of Composition." -Midnightdreary 14:44, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
He does. At any rate, you have missed the point entirely. It is not poetic composition that is frenzied but inspiration. Cf. Wordsworth on inspiration -- sympathy with the landscape, experience of the sublime, etc. -- and on writing -- rational, controlled, recalled in tranquility. One does not write when inspired in anyone's scheme except Yeats in his very late years. Furthermore, the citation is mentioned in the nPEPP. I'm not going to re-insert the sentence, as you appear to be very agitated about this, but I would recommend that you trust people a bit. Geogre 19:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not agitated at all, my friend. I'm assuming good faith, but haven't had a chance to check out the Poetic Principle yet. Just trying to help as the resident Poe expert. =) I see your point in the difference between inspiration and the follow-through. -Midnightdreary 19:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. I re-read "The Poetic Principle" and have found no mention whatsoever about inspiration or the sources of inspiration. Poe really is only writing about the purpose of a poem, how to construct one properly, how to elicit emotional response in the reader, and where "pop" poetry is headed. I would suggest that if Poe is relevant to this list, it didn't come from "The Poetic Principal." If you have a source that groups him in with those other authors, feel free to add him back in and cite it but I won't argue. Hope that helps!! -Midnightdreary 00:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
The source was the NEPP. However, the contributors there make mistakes from time to time. Myself, I'm only interested in the revival of frenzy/Platonic notions along with the vates notion inherent in the various "Aeolian Harp" Romantic notions. I wouldn't think of Poe as a major theorist of poetry (not meant to denigrate, but merely that I don't think of him as a significant critical voice), although I suppose some people would, as much as I would Coleridge and then, a bit later, the group around Keats, and then all the Victorians like Pater and Ruskin, who wrote about it and about it. What struck me, reading and adapting the NEPP, was that they had remarkably little to say about the Pater/Ruskin/Arnold nexus. I didn't remember them precisely enough to add them in myself, but I think this article is waiting for a Ruskin or Arnold or Pater specialist to add in some context. Geogre 02:18, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, though I'm definitely not a specialist on those guys so I'll step away at this point. (And, I'd disagree in that Poe is certainly a literary theorist and one of the premiere critical voices of his time, but we'll end it there!) Thanks for the collaboration! -Midnightdreary 13:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Illustration

The Bouguereau is good. She's a nice post-Romantic inspiration-seeker. I know the illustration from Swift's A Tale of a Tub would fit, but it's kind of mean-spirited. Blake has some inspiration-as-revelation prints, but those are rather cliche. Geogre 01:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I've made a few changes, most importantly (to me) the addition of the Pentecost image. You've already removed it once and I have reverted the page. I'm not sure why my changes are so unwelcome... the manuscript illumination is beautiful and bears relevance to the Christianity section. Kalindoscopy (talk) 00:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Why? Because I'm a fascist? How about because the sibyl is "inspired," and it's already discussed, and because the "adopted by the Catholic Church" is meaningless, on the one hand, and needs attribution. Because you removed an image. Do no harm, and don't insert stuff that makes no sense. How are sibyl's "adopted?" What bull did it? Did they have no parents before, or did the RCC suddenly begin sending women to caves with fumes? Are you thinking, without reason, that anchorites were sibyls? Geogre (talk) 13:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Furthermore, you have yet another odd desire to get rid of the idea that Jewish thought is integral to western notions of inspiration. In the lead of this article, you are positively at war with the "from Hellenism and Hebraism," and yet I've explained to you, or your IP, numerous times that this is absolutely non-negotiable. The discussion is artistic inspiration, our concept, and that's the lead, where an overview is provided, and our notion owes to both traditions. Further, Hellenism and Hebraism is a famous essay by one of the architects of contemporary criticism. So no, that is not up for mangling. Geogre (talk) 14:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

WOW...calm yourself dude. I though the sibyl thing was interesting and worthy of inclusion, so I inculded it. Re the Hebraism thing, don't play that game with me. I thought it read a lot better the way I modified it, but if you're so secure on your high horse, keep it as is. I wasn't throwing my weight around... I have no problem admitting where I'm wrong! However, some 'famous essay' does not a truth make. Whatever, though... I can see you're pretty emotional about this stuff, so I guess wikipedia is a big part of your life. That's great: but try to remember that some of us (myself!) are new to the game and trying to develop a wikipedia 'identity' without stepping on too many toes. This is the first real edit I've ever made to an article and already I'm accused of falsifying facts and anti-semitism! Anyway. I saw what you did with the article and it looks/reads great. So thank you, even after the (pointless?) barrage!

edit: I didn't "remove" any illustrations, I only added one and didn't receive any explanations via my IP. Kalindoscopy (talk) 17:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation not needed, when it's referenced

Look at the bottom: references. Now, when the lead says that our notion of artistic inspiration has its roots in Hellenism (meaning "the Greek world" as well as "the era after Alexander's conquests") and Hebraism, what we're seeing is both a reference by itself to Hellenism and Hebraism by Matthew Arnold and what amounts to a thesis statement. The rest of the article explains how it originates in both the Greek world (see next paragraph) and Hebraic world (again, in the next paragraph). A citation is not needed with the whole damn article is the proof, with full citations to each source. Geogre 14:19, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Again with the footnotes

Footnotes are not a requirement of any Wikipedia article. This particular article has references. They are parenthetical references and intralinear references. Anyone who goes around automatically putting banners on all articles that lack footnotes is performing illegitimate work. One might as well put up a banner saying, "This article does not have a photograph," or "This article does not have a popular culture section," or "This article does not have a trivia section." There are loads of things a given article might not have: no one has said that they're desirable, much less necessary. Geogre (talk) 13:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)