Talk:Artifact (fantasy)

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[edit] A new list

I have only seen a list of artifacts in D&D and was thinking that maybe a more general list could be created (e.g. List of fictional artifacts). Perhaps, starting with something simple:

And that's only the artifacts that have their own articles. I'm sure more could be added. --Koveras 14:36, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

like it :P oh yea i fixed some typos, i saw them so easily and i was just skimming the page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yo mama 1.0 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Source of the name

I suspect the term was invented by D&D. I have certainly never read anything that uses it prior to the advent of D&D. Can anyone produce a reference to earlier?

(Sure there are things we call artifacts in earlier literature. The question is whether they called them artifacts.) Goldfritha 03:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean by "the term"? In non-fantasy usage, an artifact is just an object made by humans.
([Origin: 1815–25; var. of artefact < L phrase arte factum (something) made with skill. See art, fact], according to dictionary.com).
Describing a fictional or mythological magical item as a magical artifact seems like a natural extension of this meaning, such that (I imagine) it would be hard to say who if anyone "invented" the useage.
On the other hand, if you mean the *use* of the term to mean "a magical object with some marvelous and alarming power, so great that it cannot be duplicated by any known art allowed by the premises of the fantasy world, and cannot be destroyed by ordinary means", then I suppose that particualr meaning could be a D&D invention.
Indeed, is it really correct to simply say that "In fantasyliterature" "artifact" means that? I'm sure I've read some fantasy literature that used "magical artifact" to mean simply "magical item", not "ultra-powerful one-of-a-kind magical item of world-shattering importance". Indeed, given that "artifact" has a conventional meaning, I'm sure it is possible for a work of fantasy to use the term without any magical implications at all (especially if no adjectives like "magical" were used).212.159.79.130 23:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
D&D used the term in its archaeological sense. That is, an artifact of previous civilization... something with a link to the past, which represents a culture. In D&D's case cultures tend to center around magic, and the most long-lived items tend also to be the most powerful. In that sense, it was only logical to use the term. However, in the sense that "artifact" now means "very powerful magic item" in roleplaying games, I do believe that D&D introduced that definition. -Harmil 15:26, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A proposal for artifacts and magic items

I'd like to propose overhauling all articles relating to magical items, resulting in the following articles:

  • Magic item - redirect to Magic item (disambiguation)
  • Magic item (disambiguation) - The current disambiguation article (no change)
  • Artifact - The current disambiguation article (no change)
  • Magic item (fantasy) - This article as currently written, but with less detail on RPGs, and a "main article" link for that section to Magic item (roleplaying games)... no D&D-specific info other than perhaps a nod to D&D's initial distinction. A separate section in this article for "artifacts".
  • Magic item (roleplaying games) - A new article detailing the nature and history of magic items in roleplaying games.
  • Magic item (Dungeons & Dragons) - A new article. The "main article" link from a Dungeons & Dragons section in Magic item (roleplaying games), which contains more detail on the artifact/magic item difference in D&D, and some iconic examples.
  • Artifact (fantasy) - Redirect to Magic item (fantasy)
  • Magic items in history and folklore - Non-fantasy related magic items (the list from Magic item, expanded and turned into prose with examples from folklore and religion.

That's roughly the plan. The goal is to more closely link "magic item" and "artifact" so that they can both be explained, while moving the RPG stuff out to its own set of articles. Any thoughts? -Harmil 15:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)