Talk:Arthur Koestler

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Contents

[edit] Paranormal and Scientific

Whomever first wrote the description of "the roots of coincidence" either didn't read it or didn't understand it. He doesn't defend Kammerer's or Jung's view but is rather critical with it saying that it is almost non-sense. Their example (a small part of the book) is only presented to show the difficulties involved in finding a formal structure for the experimental findings of parapsychology. I have therefore edited the entry. Also as a trained physicist I can tell that he was very aware of the latest advances in Quantum physics which he presents superficially but quite rigorously and accurately. boirac Oct 2006

[edit] Arrow in the Blue

No list of Koestler's books is complete without mention of his wonderful autobiography, Volume I of which is called "Arrow in the Blue". It's a must read for anyone interested in Koestler.

I have added a write-up of how this first autobiography gives an early insight into his later decision to end his life. sc00b 02:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thirteenth Tribe

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/8646

...Leon Wieseltier can only be commended for debunking Arthur Koestler's attempt to rehabilitate the long discredited theory of the non-Semitic origins of East European Jewry [NYR, October 28].

A glance at Koestler's intellectual meanderings and fluctuations across the past three decades can only lead one to conclude that his intentions this time around in The Thirteenth Tribe were not the advancement of knowledge but cruel mischief, unforgiveable attention seeking (considering the predictable Arab response already noted by Wieseltier). Koestler, therefore, deserves to be openly chastised for misusing his considerable intellectual talents and devoting them to such a peripheral theory bordering on fantastic speculation, a tangential issue in Jewish history even in its heyday a generation or so ago.

Professor Henry R. Huttenbach, Department of History, The City University of New York, New York City

RECOGNIZING CHRISTIAN IDENTITY and Koestler's book

Book review followed by point by poitn refutations

Errors in the Thirteenth Tribe, by Kevin Brook

The Thirteenth Tribe has its own page, I suggest you take this there. --MacRusgail 11:14, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Usenet posting from Kevin Brook

[Kevin Brooks, a historian on this subject] writes in a Usenet newsgroup post:

From: Kevin Brook
Subject: Re: Khazars
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2001-12-17 16:43:19 PST
Many elements of Arthur Koestler's thesis were proven false, while a few others were proven true. Some of his false claims are:
  • His concept that German Jews did not migrate to eastern Europe in large numbers.
  • His claim that French and German Jews mostly died out in the Middle Ages.
  • His exaggerated population figures for Khazaria.
  • His claim that Crimean Karaites descend from Khazars.
  • His supposition, based on Gumplowitz and other Polish Jewish scholars, that certain Polish placenames were named after Khazars. Only in Hungary and Transylvania do we find placenames that actually come from Khazars.
  • His claim, based on Mieses, that an Austrian legend about Jewish princes was based on the Khazar rule of Hungary.
  • His claim, based on Poliak, that Ashkenazic shtetls were derived from Khazar village life.
  • His claim that Ashkenazic Jews have hardly any genetic or anthropological connections to the ancient Judeans.

[edit] Reviews of Thirteenth Tribe

The following book reviews of his "The Thirteenth Tribe" provide various opinions (Rosensweig, Wieseltier, Szyszman, and Majeski are highly critical of Koestler's book but sometimes their criticisms are illegitimate; by contrast, MacLean, Steiner, Cumming, Schechner, and some other reviewers were more positive):

  • (Author?) (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") New Yorker 52 (September 20, 1976): 145.
  • Abramsky, Chimen. "The Khazar Myth." Jewish Chronicle (April 9, 1976).
  • Adams, P. L. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Atlantic 238 (September 1976): 97.
  • Anonymous. "Lost Empire: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." Economist 259 (April 24, 1976): 121.
  • Blumstock, Robert. "Going Home: Arthur Koestler's Thirteenth Tribe." Jewish Social Studies 48:2 (1986): 93-104.
  • Brace, Keith. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Birmingham Post (1976).
  • Cameron, James. "Ask the Rabbi: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." New Statesman 91 (April 9, 1976): 472.
  • Cumming, John. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") The Tablet (1976).
  • Du Boulay, F. R. H. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") London Times Educational Supplement (June 18, 1976).
  • Fox, Robin Lane. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") The Financial Times (1976).
  • Fuller, Edmund. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Wall Street Journal (1976).
  • Grossman, Edward. "Koestler's Jewish Problem: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." Commentary 62 (December 1976): 59-64.
  • Kanen, R. A. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Library Journal 101 (August 1976): 1632.
  • Kirsch, Robert. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Los Angeles Times (1976).
  • Klausner, Carla L. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Kansas City Times and Star (September 12, 1976).
  • Maccoby, Hyam. "The Khazars and the Jews: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." The Listener 95 (April 8, 1976): 450.
  • MacLean, Fitzroy. "Shalom Yisrah: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." New York Times Book Review (August 29, 1976): 4.
  • Majeski, Jane. "Chutzpah: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." National Review 27 (November 12, 1976): 1248-1249.
  • Mason, Philip. "The Birth of the Jews? The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." Spectator 236 (April 10, 1976): 19.
  • Meyer, Karl E. "Conversion in Khazaria: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." Saturday Review 3 (August 21, 1976): 40.
  • Raphael, Chaim. "Chosen Peoples: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." Times Literary Supplement (June 11, 1976): 696.
  • Rosensweig, Bernard. "The Thirteenth Tribe, the Khazars and the Origins of East European Jewry." Tradition 16:5 (Fall 1977):139-162.
  • Salamone, V. A. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Best Sellers 36 (November 1976): 262.
  • Schechner, Mark. "All the Difference in the World: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." Nation 223:17 (November 20, 1976): 535-536.
  • Sheppard, R. Z. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Time 108 (August 23, 1976): 60.
  • Sokolov, Raymond. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") Newsweek. 1976.
  • Steiner, George. (review of Koestler's "The Thirteenth Tribe.") The Sunday Times (April 6, 1976).
  • Szyszman, Simon. "La question des Khazars essai de mise au point." Jewish Quarterly Review 73:2 (October 1982): 189-202.
  • Toynbee, Philip. "Who Are the Jews? The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." London: Observer (April 4, 1976): 27.
  • Wieseltier, Leon. "You Don't Have to Be Khazarian: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler." New York Review of Books (October 28, 1976): 33-36.

[edit] Suggest 5 possible wiki links and 2 possible backlinks for Arthur Koestler.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Arthur_Koestler article:

  • Can link political activist: ...r''' ([[September 5]], [[1905]] - [[1983]]) was a novelist, political activist, and social philosopher. He was the author of many popular...
  • Can link film director: ...that Koestler had beaten and raped several women, including film director [[Jill Craigie]]. After protests, a bust of Koestler was r... (link to section)
  • Can link out of step: ...inburgh]]. ==Work== Much of Koestler's work was completely out of step with mainstream views. He did not merely arrive at differe... (link to section)
  • Can link 8th century: ...ple in the [[Caucasus]] who converted to [[Judaism]] in the 8th century and were later forced to move westwards into current [[Russ... (link to section)
  • Can link personal life: ...ile implicit in his works, carried tremendous weight in his personal life. This was confirmed when he left a substantial part of his ... (link to section)

Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):

  • In Sarkel, can backlink Arthur Koestler: ...nd settled in western Russia. From: The Thirteenth tribe by Arthur Koestler
  • In Scientific mythology, can backlink Arthur Koestler: ... and his reasons for withholding publication. According to Arthur Koestler, Copernicus did not propose a true heliocentric theory, he ...

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:32, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Russian

See Russian (usage) page for explanations. Please write your objections at its talk page, but don't revert right away. Mikkalai 20:29, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC).

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Russian_.28usage.29_page for why this is a bad idea. Significant shifts in linking practices should get some kind of policy approval, rather than being implemented unilaterally for the articles you prefer. Please don't insert you link again until you get some consensus for it. Jayjg | (Talk) 20:53, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Editing

This page could use some copyediting/encyclopedizing. I'll try to help when I have time. --Dpr 09:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vichy France

Koestler was not in a Vichy camp but before the Germans occupied France. According 'Scum of the Earth' he left Vernet in january 1940. Pse a correction. Ronald van Maas.

Please leave a URL or better reference as regards this information – thanks, David Kernow 22:57, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] His name!

Artur Kösztler in Hungary is bad... the good write is Kösztler Artur (whe he was born his name - in Hungary - is Kösztler Artur. David - from hungary Wiki (please use my discussion page here). Please change it - thanks.

Done!  Best wishes, David Kernow 22:54, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] First crosswords in Hebrew?

Does anyone have a source for this? With acrostics being common in the Tanakh, it would seem odd that no one had earlier created a crossword puzzle in Hebrew. --Blainster 02:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I think the article texts states that he "claimed" to be the first. Which is highly possible, if we are talking in the narrower modern sense. The reference is either from Cesarani or Koestler's own description of his time in Palestine. Crosswords are less than 200 years old in English (I think) and neo-Hebrew is an even younger language. --MacRusgail 11:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

--Koestler writes about being "the father" of the Hebrew crossword puzzle in "Arrow in the Blue". He was pround of it. He said it brought some lightness to an otherwise oppressively serious journalism. I recall that the word he invented for it in Hebrew would translate into English as "word acrobatics"Meb53 22:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

Once again, the inclusion of references to popular culture, such as rock music, in an article about a thinker, drags Wikipedia down to the mental level of a twelve year-old.Lestrade 18:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

Not at all, the fact he is noticed in popular culture does not reflect badly on him. Not to mention the fact it is idiotic to pretend that only twelve year olds like rock music.
Not everyone considers Koestler a thinker. Did you ever hear the quote that "Koestler loved science, but science didn't love Koestler"? I think his thoughts on science are fascinating, but he has little or no real substantial direct influence on mainstream science, and the fact he even touched Parapsychology makes him a "kook" in some people's books. --MacRusgail 19:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Why is he a polymath?

Sounds like a philosopher, author and journalist. Why is he a polymath? The 'science' sounds like philosophy of science or pseudoscience. 146.115.120.205 12:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Well being the things you just said would make him a polymath, if only in the subjects he wrote about; he was also involved in many political campaigns at the front line, scientific research to a degree (such as in the case of the effects of LSD, or more controversially fringe science (what is and isn't "pseudoscience" is highly subjective anyway)). I think the fact that he wrote about such varied subjects, ranging from history, to science, to language to politics justifies this description. He also wrote (with varying success) in a number of creative genres - fiction, drama, and journalism. --MacRusgail 19:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
The term's usually used to refer to people who excelled in both the arts and sciences. While I guess it's not strictly a misuse, it's unusual to apply to someone who excelled in multiple areas of the humanities but not the sciences, or alternately in multiple sciences but not the humanities. --Delirium 16:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Whether he excelled in the sciences is a matter of opinion. :) He certainly was involved in both the sciences and humanities, and had works published in both areas. --MacRusgail 19:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rapist

There isn't very much about Koestler being a rapist in this article beyond the mention of Cesarani's "claim"; in the linked article to Jill Craigie, though, the wording states that in Cesarani's biography "it was revealed he had been a serial rapist." Was he a rapist or not? is this disputed anywhere? does anyone care? Hjijch 01:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, some people definitely care. There was a big ruckus about this at the University of Edinburgh regarding the Jill Craigie claim. Coupled with Koestler's double suicide, his relationship with women is controversial. Is it disputed? Well, I don't know whether he did rape her or not, but it certainly is believed by some people. --MacRusgail 16:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Allegations that he was a serial and violent rapist surely merit a section of there own.Musungu jim 00:57, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
And also very careful wording. --MacRusgail 14:26, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Jill Craigie herself confirmed that she had been raped by Koestler. 74.138.179.146 03:15, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Here is a 2003 review from The Times of Ronald Neame's biography of Tweedie; the rape by Koestler is the headline. 86.132.140.178 (talk) 00:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Balfour Declaration (Source of Citation)

The comment about the Balfour Declaration, that in it "one nation solemnly PROMISED to a second nation the country of a third," is included in Chapter 1, Romantics and Routine, of "Promise and Fulfillment, Palestine 1917-1949," first published by MacMillan and Co. Ltd., London and New York, in 1949. In the paperback, PAPERMAC (a division of MacMillan), shortened version of the original edition, published in 1983, the comment appears on page 4. The paragraph in which it appears reads:

"Now an improbable event [the rise of Zionism] is bound to lead to further improbable events, until the area of the the disturbance [a comparison has been made with a golf ball which has suddenly started moving towards a hole without being hit] gradually returns to normality. The ball which started rolling towards the hole on its own upsets the routine of the whole tournament. The appearance of the freak movement of Zionism on the political scene was bound to produce a series of freak-reactions. It culminated in the famous Balfour Declaration, one of the most improbable political documents of all time. In this document one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third."

--ZScarpia 14:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Koestler as post-modernist

I note that someone has referred to Koestler as post-modernist. I think some of his stuff is proto-post-modernist (if there is such a thing! I have to admit I hate the whole concept of post-modernism, because it is deliberately protean and pretty parasitic), in its critiques of science, and even communism. --MacRusgail 11:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does anyone have a clue what this sentence means?

Holons in a Holarchy have the dual tendency of integration and development and out of balance they tend to a pathology. 74.138.179.146 03:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Could somebody write an IPA version of his name to illustrate the pronunciation? I think it could be usefull. Musungu jim 13:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Could be a problem as there is more than one. "Koestler" is usually pronounced "Kessler/Kestler" in English, but "Köstler" is the real pronounciation no doubt.--MacRusgail 16:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

True MacRusgail. On answers.com they give the kessler pronunciation. I've also heard it pronounced Kerstler. How do Hungarians pronounce it?Musungu jim 15:23, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I would guess "Kuhstler".--MacRusgail 18:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

How come? Musungu jim 17:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Because his birthname was "Kösztler" and that's how it would be pronounced in German.--MacRusgail 19:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Koestler Trust

Why is there no mention of the Koestler trust which Arthur Koestler created. It is to promote rehabilitation of prisioners through creativity. by annon

I have just spotted that too but am right in the middle of tiding up a lot of other loose ends to be able to think of any thing encyclopaedic to say. So will just leave this link here in the hope that an art therapist or someone can pick it up. Broadmoor hospital often have patients (they don't call them prisoners) who win Koestler prizes. http://www.koestlertrust.org.uk/ --Aspro 10:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll add it. Great idea, but not keen on a lot of the winners!!! --MacRusgail 19:28, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fortean Times article link

I noticed someone added the Forteam Times link in and it was reverted. I asked about the removals [1] and Hu12 did say "Feel free to add back YOUR contribs to the Charles Fort article, as 194.205.219.2's contribs are all I'm targeting.--Hu12 19:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)" [2] - the message was changed because (as you can see there) I have a conflict of interest and can't add them back in but their statement is fairly clear that there is no reason other editors can't put the link back in if they felt it added to the entry, in accordance with the general guidleines WP:EL. I'm informed this arose because the site moved and the site admin updated the links on a lot of entries triggering concerns about spamming, hence the removals (as they aren't allowed under the various guidelines). As the site moved I think the link has changed. I don't have the new link to hand but it can be easily found through the search. Hope this explains the background and resolves any confusion or concerns. Obviously that is just my take on the situation and feel free to seek clarification. (Emperor 22:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC))

Again - why? I thought it was an informative article, and I am puzzled why the editors seem to have targetted this particular one. I have also updated the link - the old one was defunct, and the new one works. --MacRusgail 16:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia defines spam as "Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam. Although the specific links may be allowed under some circumstances, repeatedly adding links will in most cases result in all of them being removed." (see WP:SPAM). That is why the links are reverted. Also, there are editors here that have a conflict of interest with that link ("3. Linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);"). That is why the link was removed. Also, we have to observe WP:NOT#REPOSITORY, a few links are OK, there are now 8. If the link is interesting and tells something about the subject, maybe use it as a reference (see also the intro of WP:EL)? Hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra T C 16:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Except, that despite your belief that it does, I can't see how. The page is a profile of Arthur Koestler, which is in line with the article, and actually quite informative. --MacRusgail 17:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry, I don't understand. You mean that you don't see how you can use this as a reference? I could try and break down all items in WP:EL (I could ask some questions like: does it add to the page, does it contain information that you cannot incorporate, etc., in which is this link providing more info than others (so would other links then also have to be here, so that we do get a linkfarm ..)), but I don't think that is really necessary. The link was originally spammed to this page, and therefore removed. If the general consensus is to place it there, then I am fine with that. If the page links to a profile, then certainly it contains information that is also on the wiki-page, and hence, it would make a great reference for certain parts (I see e.g. in the biography that he has been imprisoned a couple of times, at first glance I do not see the wikipedia article mention that information). And there may be other info. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra T C 18:09, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I see what you're getting at. Yes, it probably can be used as a reference. But no, I don't think it necessarily performs as spam (certainly one of the better pieces of spam I've seen if so). There are some mentions of his imprisonment in the article, and I'll try and link into that... --MacRusgail 18:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
For the spam issue, see special:contributions/Ali strachan (this page was the very first edit, see also WT:WPSPAM#Dennis_Publishing_WP:COI_Spam). Such link-additions should be discussed, not merely be a mass addition. I agree, there is way worse, still such additions are arguably not neutral. But thanks for the help, have a nice day! --Dirk Beetstra T C 19:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I've used it as a reference to his imprisonment, experience at 14, and his membership of the SPR. --MacRusgail 19:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biography

Anybody ever heard about another biography, entitled Koestler: A Biography, edited by Hamilton in 1982?

-- 88.72.4.198 07:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Hamilton was the author who wrote a biography on Koestler, it is already mentioned on the mainpage: Hamilton, Iain, 1982. Koestler: A Biography. ISBN 0-02-547660-2.

-- 88.72.31.45 07:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question regarding the name

If Koestler was born into a German-speaking family, why is he featured as Kösztler Artúr in the article? That, for sure, is not German, but Hungarian. If Koestler's mother language was German, I do not see why the Hungarian name should be mentioned. --84.253.213.93 (talk) 13:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Because he was probably registered by a Hungarian speaker, and it should be borne in mind that a period of Magyarisation was beginning. I think it should be included. It is of interest. At least to me.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)