Talk:Art car

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"exteriors and interiors of factory-made automobiles are transformed into expressions of individual ideas, values, beliefs and dreams. the cars range from imaginatively painted vehicles to extravagant fantasies whose original bodies are concealed beneath newly sculptured shells"

(from Petersen Automotive Museum's Spring 2003 Los Angeles, California exhibit Wild Wheels: Art for the Road Gallery Guide) (curated by Harrod Blank) The above is fair usage material from atwo-page ephemeral publication containing no copyright notice and distributed to attendees of the exhibition. Pedant 00:25, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Taxicabs

I've seen pictures of some pretty elaborately decorated taxis in South America and the Phillipines... anyone want to add something from there? Pedant 02:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] other art cars and artists

Robert "Rockette Bob" Van Keuren III, Philo Northrup, Rev. Charles Linville, Rebecca Caldwell, Tom Kennedy, Dennis Woodruff, Leonard Knight

I removed an entry that was clearly by someone trying to showcase their personal creation (they didn't even bother to alphebetize it - just stuck it up top). We don't have room to list every artcar in existance (there are hundreds if not thousands) and I think the cars section should be restricted to well-known artcars that either have a long history in the community, have creators with a long history, or have been featured prominently in the news or public displays. I say this as someone who owns an artcar and chooses not to list it here out of respect. Plymouths 01:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Please see WP:N, WP:NOT and WP:V for relevant criteria. In brief, the first guideline says that content must be notable (the subject of multiple non-trivial published works), the second policy says that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and the third that new material should cite a reliable source, or it may be challenged or removed by any editor. Your actions are aligned with these guidelines and policies, in my opinion. Walter Siegmund (talk) 06:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I had a chance to look through the entries further and removed a few more (like the one where the only contribution of the author to ALL of wikipedia appeared to be to list his own car). There are certainly others that could be added as well. To attempt to emphasize the fact that it should be famous and well-known artcars I renamed it "notable art cars". Hopefully people will get the idea. Plymouths 19:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BMW art cars?

The BMW art cars are always what I've associated with the term. They don't really fit the definition in this page, though, since they're commissioned by BMW and done by professional artists (very famous ones at that). Any ideas on how to address them?


My thought is that the best method is to mention them here, but create a separate page in which to discuss them further. That would give the space to properly note the various cars, artists, etc. without cluttering up this page excessively. -- The BMW cars are of importance as they reflect one aspect of the spectrum- very famous professional artists have used art cars as a medium. Ideally the article should have illustrations from the entire spectrum for example- 1. truly visionary artcars (guys in the desert-religious folk) 2.Ordinary folk who have never thought of exhibiting the pre event artcar culture there are many of these.(my sticker car was pre event culture I had never been to or seen an event or an artcar ever...) 3.Cars designed at events (school project cars some very famous ones from houston) 4.Cars designed specifically to be exhibited never or rarely driven (aero car for example) 5. Cars desined by professional artists (Flutter Bug) 6. Cars desinged to sell things and for marketing (founding fathers car is designed to market a book by Dr. Bob Heronimous in Baltimore last year, A famous truck artcar was designed to sell artistic clocks in Baltimroe and others are designed to be sets to display and sell folk art.) Other cars are just seen on the streets and driver owners are told : he our car is art. So when the article is "art car" it should be inclusive and representative of the entire art car world. Complex but fun! I think this would aid the reader who wants to get a grasp of what the potentials are and to understand all which now fits under the heading "art car" in the world. This has evovled quite a bit over the past 50 years. Have fun! Conrad Jay Blade 14:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tone?

I'm not sure about the tone of this article. It feels a bit value-laden and rambling -- particularly in slangy journalistic phrases such as "'Cartistry' truly attained unstoppable momentum as a social and artistic movement in the 1990s"

I'm not sure it would be improved by being made more formal, but I do get the feeling that it needs to be edited. It also appears to contradict itself in a few minor but irritating ways.


Any objections? Theoh 11:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. When I found it it was a real mess (lots of vanity entries and irrelevant garbage). I've been slowly working on bringing it back to some form of sanity but I wouldn't mind help. Incidentally I've been involved in the artcar community for about 7 years and I've never heard the terms "cartists" or "cartistry" used, nor have I seen it in any other article on the topic. Plymouths 15:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok first of all there should not be an "overview" section below the "contents" section - the section above "contents" is supposed to be the overview! And there's a LOT of overlap in what's said there, in the "artistic styles" section and in the "history" section (which isn't really history in the standard sense). Also OMG REFERENCES!! I don't know why the "articles without references" tag went away - it still doesn't have references. A lot of the links at the bottom could be turned into a references section but so far they're not. Plymouths 15:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Narrow View

At this time the article clearly favors the cars mentioned by only one author Harrod Blank. These are well known cars however the article is not entitled "well known art cars" it is Art Cars. There are other ways art cars can become well known for example: The cable television program Monster Garage featured all of my cars in an entire episode. Therefore the are "well known" the same is true of books. Three of my cars are in books (one is in one of Harrod's Books) that makes them well known. Another problem in this area is that the cars featured seem to be all from the West Coast. An important aspect of the recent development of the art car world (and it is not a movement which is a bit more formal) is that there are now many cars on the east coast. Something my cars illustrate. Another important aspect of the artcar world is that most of the art cars on the road today are ordinary i.e. not famous. Additionally most major festivals will accept any entry providing it is an art car. Houston prides itself on being "everyones artcar parade" Artscape in Baltimore also accepts every entry except last year when it did not accept gas powered vehicles. Therefore the article should recognize that the art car world is very much a world for every one and every car. The "important ones" are in the minority and not reflective of the entire artcar world. As this is an evolving and flexible medium I suggest that the article asks that photos of artcars be submitted and that they be inserted from time to time in rotation. There can be a section on "very well known artcars" and perhaps on "prize winners" but there should be a few of ordinary cars as well as truly visionary works which are out of the mainstream and as yet not recognized.....just a thought. I would think that if you don't wish to mention all of my cars....with the exception of the soul car are well known.....you should include the Handy car (Epicentral Shrine of the Helping Hand Vehicular) which has appeared on national television,local television features,local and national media, a book, voice of America television, news articles, and won first prize at houston in the daily driver category. You will find information and photos which you can use at: http://www.geocities.com/artcars/handyweb.html It is a difficult job but an article on Art Cars should reflect the wide range of Art Cars out there and not just famous ones. The reader should get a sense that the artcar world reflects a spectrum of purposes, interests and orientations which is open to all who create art cars. I appreciate your dedication to this article keep up the good work! Conrad Jay Blade 14:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

There are SEVERAL HUNDRED artcars that are prizewinners. We don't have room for all of them. Personally I'd like to entirely get rid of the "notable art cars" section - it junks up the article. When I first found this article it was a collection of vanity links - people who created wikipedia entries for the sole purpose of adding their cars to the list. Which is approximately what you did. And even if some of your cars are notable you don't get YOUR OWN SPECIAL SECTION. See Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not Also, wikipedia discourages autobiography. Plymouths 14:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Good Point. This is one of the new aspects of the growing artcar world. When first there were a few then a book full then several books filled.....now thousands....I think the main point is to characterize the entire artcar world by citing an example of each major category. But simply citing lack of signifcance for removing is not appropriate as the cars added were significant. My position is that one car per category should be the limit. So why not remove all of them. We can all build some sort of case for significance. Also reference to individuals is also not really on topic. There are too many outstanding individuals these days too. As for the use of Harrod well I would say ok but only if the car is famous in three references in addition to Harrod's work. His is one view. Rotating images and citations may also be helpful in solving this. I think one thing that this article can do is help define the major categories of art car. They never will be exact or hard but they are a good way to describe a spectrum. Categrories should be found for:

1. Cartists: totally independent not formal (have to be told they are cartists)The most formal of Visionary artists.(out in the desert etc.... 2. Cartists that enter events that formalize their inclusion 3. Cartists that do not drive daily (artworks that are only exhibited that is never drove daily) 4. Cartists that design and build cars for purposes other than exhibition that is self marketing, to make money, to pay travel bils for vacations, to market products, to rent to movie makers. 5. Cartists who create a car as an event or educational mission

Actually maybe categories is not good maybe modes.....is better as cars can move from one to another.

Also- getting away from hero worship etc....cars should be described as reflections of techniques- glued on stuff, foam insulation, temporary, painted, interactive, totally transformed (say into a hippo)mosaic....(this lets the article have many examples of car images without being mini biographies of individuals)

In addition to technology and techniques purpose of the car- the mission statement -artistic:aesthetic -political or point of view -religious shrine -stage -humor -Project-group work (assignment) -fantasy

The categories are not complete but as an idea of what can be done.... One wa of handling indivdual artists is to link to their web page or transfer the information from this article to other articals about specific individuals....Probably a good idea as there are famous cartists just like people in other fields. This article could be linked to them....Harrod for example should have his own article.....that way information will be not lost and can be linked in.

A wonder! Conrad Jay Blade 15:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I did actually intend to make the "construction and decoration" techniques more full of examples, but I need more public domain pictures. I looked through my recent event pictures and didn't find any good ones. Plymouths 15:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
don't know about quality but I have probably too many on line feel free just cite source in small print etc...if convenient..... this is a start...http://www.geocities.com/artcars/hutmanartcars.html

-for temporary see magnet truck, for glued on handy, painted-someday the frogs will inherit the earth aka party car....all have brass instruments/music some have interactive dimension.....whatever...I would also try the orange show as they have photos of allmost all the participants I think I signed a waver so permission should be able to be obtained from the orange show foundation itself...doesnt hurt to ask... Conrad Jay Blade 17:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Term Cartist

The term Cartist has been used in the Art Car World for at least 20 years when it was used by Dave the first curator of the artscape artcar show to describe the artists. I have been doing artcars for 20 years now and I heard the word used before artscape. I have heard the term used at the Houston art car parade and festival all four times I attended. It is in fact a favorite term of several friends so I beleive it is in common usage. Again....diverse sources would help this article. Conrad Jay Blade 14:24, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Please provide at least two links to actual sources or it doesn't count as notable (see WP:notability). Plymouths 14:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok! Here is one: http://www.music.columbia.edu/pipermail/dorkbotsea-announce/2004-May/000034.html

http://www.eastbayimprov.com/bios.htm (under Emily- a well known Cartist indeed)

http://www.dorkbot.org/dorkbotsea/dorkbotmtg11.shtml

Even a British Reference http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006480714,00.html

I used the term at the bottom of this page in 2003 http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/partycar2.html

from google link is broken but useage is evident Harrod's Profile - tribe.net A brilliant filmmaker, art cartist and master of the one-string guitar, he's also my favorite Burning Man campmate and always a pleasure to be around. ... people.tribe.net/harrodblank - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

Here is one from 2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/artcars/message/4322

A new usage but brilliant as it works in the place of three- cartist vs art car artist Conrad Jay Blade 14:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, fine, so that merits a mention. It certainly does NOT merit referring to artists as "cartists" throughout the entire article. I will clean that up. Plymouths 15:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
sounds good to me variety is always good-Conrad Jay Blade 20:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Objectivitiy Edit-how to deal with history/examples

I would suggest that all references to individuals and individual cars be removed.

Images should also be removed- Replace them to external links to web pages which have images in them that illustrate the history or technique maybe accomidate up to 6 links or so per illustration.

The history aspect is important but can be summed up. Again with links to examples on line. milestones in the history as follows....I may leave something out....

1. early decoration of vehicles- Baroque Coaches for royalty.

2. Ethnic non european or american- taptaps etc....

3. Comercial painted vehicles- victorian trade signs on trucks elaborate painted texts advertizing businesses.

4.c. 20s I think visionaries- generally biblical references.

5. 40-s 50s elaborate cars of singers, film stars and notable persons

6. Hot rod movement Ross.....

7. California/west coast Rebecca Moon etc., still not considering themselves artists just decorators...

8. Proliferation of artcars in texas and LA. I think this is late 50s 60s surely achieved by 70s

9. Eccentric cars across the country here and there- the silver dollar man in DC 1960s and 70s-a few visonary folk working in isolation non artists (outsiders)

10.Rise of the artcar event, Blank, proliferation of events. More mainstream artists although visionaries and outsiders continue.

11.appearance of the project car (designed by groups, classes for events)

12."artist awareness movement" this might be c. 1995 or so....cartists as at least semi-professionals in need of recongition and payment for expenses allocation of funding for mileage etc....

13. Non daily drivers appear- this may happen in a few stages. One recalls the commissioning of art cars that don't run from the impound lot at artscape. Then there are the floats etc...

This is an initial suggestion. Dates are broad estimates. The list may not be complete. But If one starts with it and goes one at a time including the stages once verified and one can provide examples then a chronology can be built and adjusted over time. Consider the stage find references and web pages that cover it or a car or a portion of it.

I would simply describe the phase or milestone. Provide the best date and find web pages to insert as examples- maybe 6 or so.

Ideally for example web pages one would collect as many as can be found store them and rotate them. Don't know but I have a java program somewhere which changes a line of type inserting a different one each time the page is loaded. That might work. In some cases there will be more web pages illustrating something than you wish to have together in one article- It is good to have several but not good to have a hundred yet one would like to give people equal coverage. If we keep a pool of links here for each topic to be illustrated we can change them. I wouldnt mind editors putting their favorite examples in just so the web page had content that applied. It does not matter which page is used which car but just not too many. Change is ok. That way we get out of quality issues. We dont need the best example we just need a few.

I don't think we need links to events other than Tim Klein's calendar already there. I do think we should describe events in terms of what happens at them who goes to them, types of honoraria,mileage,food, awards....something like: initial event opening gatherings, parked exhibits,artcar balls, communal dinners-artcars go out together, illuminated parades, informal parades, formal parades,make an artcar, artcar seminar, prize award events, children design mini artcars, school visits. Artcar only events, artcar events attached to larger events, small local gatherings down at the diner or country store.

As for sourceing I think much of this falls into common knowledge just keep the descriptions non judgemental...of course perhaps these things have web page references....

One would mention artcar preservation efforts-Houston artcar museum and harrods new project out west.

Another thing to do would be to include artcar funerals, I had one for Sticker, the most famous one is the one in harrods movie cosmic ray deflection society I think....

Thats the idea collection for now....I could edit it but will wait for concensus and then also let someone else do it.....but here is a start. -Conrad Jay Blade 20:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you in a snit because editors think your vanity article is too full of problems, so now you feel the need to go snip at other people's involvement with art cars? Wryspy 02:25, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I strongly disagree that all pictures should be removed - artcar is a highly visual medium and not having pictures will make the article much less useful to people. We can't rely on people to go to other pages. Also see WP:NOT#REPOSITORY. Most wikipedia articles have pictures associated with them. People have been generous enough to donate pictures to the cause (a couple are mine) and I think we should keep them. I also do agree with you (from a previous comment) that there should be some east-coast cars depicted and as such I asked user:Improbcat for some I could use since he is still on the coast. I have a couple but have not had a chance to upload them yet.
  • I also disagree with removing all names - people need to have a tie-in to their other knowledge base and including references to well known people like Andy Warhol and Janis Joplin gives them some way to relate the article to other things. Also a link to Harrod Blank will lead them to his books and movies where they can learn a lot more if they want to.
  • I agree with removing links to specific events - those links were all put in there prior to my working on the article and one of the things on my to-do list was to sort through the links, find which ones made good references, and delete the rest. You'll see I've made a start on this, but there's clearly more to do. Links to things like the art car agency should stay though because they're a good reference to go to to find out about a lot more cars than can be listed here.
  • I also agree that there should be some sort of an "artcar events" heading in general with two caveats. 1) is that it should be general and not start becoming a giant list of events - if people want to know more they can go to the artcar calendar and find more. 2) Is that it needs to be very clear that the artists who attend events are only a segment of the artcar community and one doesn't need to attend events to be considered an artcar artist.
  • Though I'd like to add that one reason I've been hesitating about creating that section is that I'm not sure it can be summarized well enough to be worth including - afterall artcar events covers a huge variety of things, from giant art experiences like BurningMan and its spinoffs to a bunch of car artists spontaneously gathering in a supermarket parkinglot. A whole lot of "sometimes and sometimes not" caveats is going to leave people completely mystified as to what the heck we're even talking about. 192.91.147.34 22:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC) Oops that was me - didn't realize I got logged out. Plymouths 22:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
  • As to things being "common knowledge" remember that what is common knowledge among artcar artists is entirely different from what is common knowledge among the general population. Imagine the person reading this article has never heard of artcars... or heard a passing mention of the word and wondered "what's that?" and came here to look it up. I strongly disagree that we can assume ANYTHING here is common knowledge other than the fact that cars exist and that sometimes people decorate them.
  • The "history" section needs a TON of work. There's a lot in there that's completely unverified but I didn't want to just remove it outright until someone could check on it. If you have references to anything in that timeline above feel free to contribute them.
  • I really don't want links and images to be rotating - that just makes things messy and hard to keep track of. We should pick things that are good illustrations of a concept and references to information and only change them if they go away or a better reference is found. No other wiki page that I know of works on a system of rotating links and images.
Plymouths 20:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
      • hard to deal with the fact that there are so many examples out there, people, events, cars.....someone is always going to feel left out and the selectivity of the editor will be something of wonder.....I would suggest that if an image is used there should be some justification for selection. For example- as a caption: "this car is an example of x using technology y. This gives a reason for the inclusion of the image. It puts the example in the one of many category....I would not say something like "this car is the best example of". When you deal with the east coast car example I would do the same. Choose an east coast car that is an example of something broader. It can still be in the east coast write up section but with a caption such as: "the plaid car is an example of a painted car which was created on the east coast.
      • Mentioning people.....dont really know how to solve this one. If you mention a specific individual you should perhaps have to spend time on justification which would get in the way. While involving people is interesting and makes things more readable I would stick to people who are significant because they did something, invented something significent for the main topic art car. I would identify the artist of cars in images. Authors and references should be in the reference section where they can be mentioned. History - hard to tell one can keep history general in the text putting in footnotes attached for example to "famous persons who drove artcars" footnote to reference of persons.....
      • I once maintained a list of links on my Irish pages and had people always asking me to add theirs and other links would be broken and the list grew to be unmanagable. One thing to do is to simply set up a google link taking the reader to google "artcar" "art car" I would have a link to each version-both are used. The google link would produce pages and pages of art cars. If one wanted to be more creative one could put a google link to the google blogs search. A link to google scholar with the same search terms would provide an extension of the article via a search of appearance of the terms in academic works. (note there is a way to have the link not just to google but to a specific google search)
      • with rotating links and text.....dont know if it hasnt been done but I have used an applet to do this. It lets you have a huge database and provide a random bit of it--dont know if it can be done on Wikipedia but lots of amazing things are done- just because it hasn't been done don't mean it isn't possible. This is just one way of getting around personal mention which imho should be avoided in the first place unless as above described. All for now! I am going out to do art for a change-the new paint on the new car (soul car) might just be hard enough to sandConrad Jay Blade 14:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
        • There are serveral pictures on the page now. In fact they are all labelled as you say (with the exception that artists names are not used when I did not know them). Do you object to any of the current labels?
        • If people feel "left out" then, geez, they can get a damned life. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a warm fuzzy generator to make everyone feel loved and validated. When I first found this article there were a crapload of total vanity entries by people adding their own cars to the page, a lot of those people having done NOTHING ELSE in wikipedia anywhere ever. I took them out. You'll notice my cars aren't there and I'm not crying.
        • Links to google searches are inappropriate see Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided Yes a guideline not a rule, but I think a good one.
        • I'm not saying rotating links is impossible - just that it's not part of the wikipedia style. Wikipedia is an ENCYCLOPEDIA, not a place for random hackery.
Plymouths 18:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
the best way to caption a photo here seems to me to be to indicate a technique or something that the car represents if you have done that it is fine. I think more examples of surface treatments and technologies could be useful. Names are appropriate but maybe in a reference citation style. So....let me see....if someone else inserts photos of my cars who is not me and ties them into the text for one reason or the other you will let them stay? I wonder....Not to say I dont have good faith but I wonder. I did not suggest changing links and citations for purposes of hackery I did it of course to improve things. It is a solution. A way to have a large number of cars and individuals represented without having mile long lists of them. The google ideas are also intended to serve the article. In this case maybe not a ordinary application but one that might improve things. There is a real problem that for reasons of asthetics generally....a larger number of artists can not be listed not even just the web pages....the google search would be a convenience that would benefit the reader. The reader of this article should have access to as many examples as artcar as possible it seems to me- if you dont want them all on the page the google answer seems perfect. Perhaps not a link then. Maybe provide search terms related to artcars and recommend that visitors search them in google and google scholar etc....Conrad Jay Blade 19:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
If anyone INCLUDING you inserts photos in good faith and ties them into the text I will leave them. If you insert images of your OWN cars I won't assume good faith - I'll assume self-promotion because that's what will be demonstrated. But I'm sure you have pictures of cars other than your own. As to google links - I think we can assume that readers know how to use google and that if they care to learn more they can go to google to do a search themselves. We don't need to hold their hand. A wiki article is supposed to be a starting point, not an indiscriminate collector of all possible information on a topic (see WP:NOT#REPOSITORY which I already linked to above). We find a dozen or so good examples of artcars we put them in. And people who cry because they got left out can GET A LIFE. Plymouths 19:34, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Donks

Although this has not been covered - in the past few years, there is a movement where GM B-bodies (1971-96) are customized with lifted suspensions and wild paint jobs. One who reads RIDES Magazine would notice that some of the cars (especially the Donks on the East Coast) have custom paint jobs much like the lowriders.

This would be good for addition or connection to the Lowrider article, but doesn't really connect directly to this article.Improbcat 19:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

External links- what are we doing with links to individuals and indivdual artists in this section. Then there is the wallpaper comercial site....IMHO there should be no links to individuals or collections of cars that relate to one individual-that would be promotion.Cbladey 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I already told you - I haven't had a chance to look through all the links and remove all the inappropriate ones. the walpaper site got added like LAST NIGHT and I just took it back out. people spam wikipedia frequently. it's a big job to stay on top of it. I can't be logged in 24-7 watching for spam so sometimes it gets through. Also, please use section headers - you put your comments under "donks" but they had nothing to do with donks. Plymouths 18:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I made a change to the reference of BMW Art Cars in the introduction. I hadn't noticed that the link to BMW art cars was already present in the external links section, but IMO the external link works better in the body of the article. I think that leaving it only in the external link section makes it less likely that a new reader will happen to follow it. When I first read the article it wasn't apparent that there was a specific history of BMW Art Cars. --Dragonvpm 08:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Changes Feb 3/07

fix the capitalization- I found two- Christmas and one of the captions does not begin in a cap Cbladey 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

you do not have an image of a real driving shrine-that is a religious one for prayer etc....I drive one but some inconsiderate individual as removed it. There are others-there is the chapel on wheels which was at avam once. Not the buddhist shrine pulled at houston it is a trailer. If you want a photo of the epicentral shrine of the helping hand I can I suppose go through all the trouble of uploading it. .... Cbladey 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Help Feb 4/07

I shall keep an eye out for the wallpaper and other spam. I just thought I would mention it before I removed it. Could we come up with a guideline....ie. no personal pages of images,or sites about one artist and then adverts? (If a link to a web page is needed because an individual comes up in the article text it is best to use the [1] tags around the source or web page address and then put a references section in where the footnote will magicly appear ===References===

  1. ^

I will do one as an example-if you dont like it delete....Cbladey 13:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

That is in fact exactly what I had in mind for references - just that a lot of references still need to be found, especially the the history section (which I did not write so have no idea where the info came from). I fixed the reference to come after the quote though, rather than after the name "burning man" Plymouths 16:02, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ant Farm

Earlier today someone added a link to Ant Farm (group) who, according to their wiki created several of the "cadillac ranch" sculptures. Those are fascinating sculptures involving cars but they are not "art cars" in the sense of being driveable road-worthy works of art. I would classify them as "car art" instead. Does anyone have any reasonable arguments as to why that should be included in the article? And even if it is I don't believe it merits being in the introduction.Plymouths 06:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Noone has justified it to me so I'm removing it.Plymouths 09:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization

Is there a consensus on how the term "art car" should be capitalized and whether it is one or two words?. Looking at the introduction, I see "art car" "artcar" and "Art Car" (there is also "Art car" but that seems to only come up when the phrase "art car" starts a sentence). I was going to standardize the capitalization, but I thought I should check to see what is preferred. It looks like "art car" is the most used version but the others appear throughout the article. --Dragonvpm 07:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I attempted to go through and put all of them in lowercase but I apparently missed some. No, it's not a proper noun. It should not be capitalized.Plymouths 09:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I just went through and standardized them all to "art car" (except where they start sentences, of course). Hornbreaker 00:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)