Talk:Art Spiegelman

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Contents 1 Art's surname 2 Art's Children 3 Absolute Astronomy 4 Swedish American? 5 Shameless Plug 6 Pertinent Information, Not a Plug 7 Removal of referenced text 8 Removed digressive material 9 POV

[edit] Art's surname

His surname is spelt without the additional "e". It is spelt "Spigelman". His cousins noted the difference in spelling when I spoke with them a couple of years ago, and it should be corrected on this page.

For confirmation, check his publications. They are all published under "Art Spigelman". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.3.147 (talk) 02:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I own Maus and Maus II and they are both spelled with "Spiegelman". AP Shinobi (talk) 01:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Art's Children

In the New Yorker column by Art Spiegelman about 9/11, which is linked to on this page, he mentions his son, Dash. But his son isn't mentioned on the page, and I can't find info on him. If we're listing his daughter, we out to be listing this fellow too. Grenye

[edit] Absolute Astronomy

This page should be changed immediately. I do not know what your rules about plagiarism are, but this article is directly copied from http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/A/Ar/Art_Spiegelman.htm please check!

Actually, it's the other way around. The absoluteastronomy page says: "The source of this article is Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The text of this article is licensed under the GFDL." Nickptar 00:36, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Swedish American?

Surely he's American of Polish descent? See Maus. rst20xx 20:26, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree, but it appears he was born in Stockholm, moving to the US in his early childhood. The nationality in the intro issue hadn't been solved last time I stopped by the Manual of Style. Hiding talk 21:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I just added him to the Jewish-Americans category...I was surprised he wasn't already listed, esp. due to the nature of his work.

[edit] Shameless Plug

The reference to spiegelman's ex-girlfriend is irrelevant, and simply being used as a shameless link to the Quarry Hill Creative Center. Where are the sources that state that they were together on that weekend? IN PRISONER ON THE HELL PLANET IN MAUS (Maus I, P. 100) I suspect this information was added by Isabella herself. What are wikipedia's rules on this?

[edit] Pertinent Information, Not a Plug

I think that it would be a plug (and why should anyone ever be ashamed of themselves anyway?) if I plugged the rubber stamp company (Top- Drawer) that Art and I created together with Francoise and other friends-- but Quarry Hill Creative Center is a valid page and has had a long and fascinating history of its own, of which Art's having known us is only a little part. 209.198.96.180 13:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Isabella

Hello again, (Mar 21, 2006) I put this information in (with references, see bottom of SPiegelman page) because, as one of my favorite writers, Aaron Sorkin, says,when his character Charlie is warned not to go somewhere because his blackness offends people and he is being intimidated, "A man stands up." A woman, too. It is not my wish to try to cling to anyone's coat tails. As William Blake says,"The Outward Creation is as Dust upon my Feet." WE are all important in "...the Imagination which liveth for ever." But I am not a non-entity, and I am very tired of being told that I should not have existed, or did not exist, or was of no importance. That is why I posted here. That's all I have to say on the subject. 209.198.96.180 13:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Isabella Fiske McFarlin 209.198.96.180 13:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)ladybellefiske

209.198.96.180 13:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Hello, I am Isabella. How is it irrelevant that Art and I were together at that time? He mentions me in Prisoner On the Hell PLanet ("I'd just spent the weekend with my girlfriend, Isabella. My parents didn't like her...")It is a part of the story.

You cannot leave out one part of a person's life and choose another... unless you want to write a shameless hagiography.

My link to Quarry Hill Creative Center is NOT a plug for Quarry Hill, which neither wants nor needs one. I thought that Wikipedia is supposed to be about fact and information-- and that there is nothing wrong with one valid article being linked to another.

==W

[edit] Removal of referenced text

I have reinstated text regarding Spiegelman's breakdown and his mother's suicide. This information is of note and shouldn't be removed without discussion. Hiding talk 07:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed digressive material

Isabella, you may have been very important to Art, but the article is a brief summary of the highlights of his career--it isn't about you. I have deleted references to Isabella and Quarry Hill, on the grounds that these are not among the most notable aspects of Spiegleman's career. BTfromLA 15:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

If you only knew!! Isabella

If you've got a story to tell, by all means, tell it. I'm sure you could find an interested publisher. But Wikipedia isn't the place--there's a policy (WP:NOR) of no "original research": in other words, wikipedia relies on previously published sources, not first-person accounts. BTfromLA 20:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I am not going to tell my story here and I never was. I posted links to show the references to my part of the story. I put my name and that of Quarry Hill in because I thought that it might interest readers to see a link there (that 's what interests me about Wikipedia). You misunderstand my purpose here. If I wanted to grasp at coattails, I could have done it long ago. 209.198.96.180 20:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)Isabella (ladybellefiske) I think of myself as a friend of Art's and there is no point in this whole thing.

On the question of relevance of Isabella's name: Spiegelman is publishing a memoir at present. Isabella Fiske was with him when he experienced his breakdown and when his mother committed suicide. Some of MAUS takes place at or near Quarry Hill. Francoise Mouly and Art Spiegelman visited Quarry Hill for years; Isabella and Brion cared for their children. These are facts. Isabella Fiske was not just one of many people in Spiegelman's life, as his memoir will, one may hope, make clear-- if it is an honest memoir.

No argument. As Wikipedia editors, we've got three questions to answer with regard to this sort of info: 1. Is it relevant encyclopedic information? 2. Is it notable enough to merit inclusion in a concise article? 3. Has it been previously published by a credible source (or better, multiple sources)? (See WP:NOR if you aren't familiar with this last policy.) BTfromLA 06:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Comparing Hiroshima to the Holocaust is absolutely POV. Who said Hiroshima (which was only one of two atomic bombings, against an aggressor nation, might I add) was one of the two greatest tragedies in the 20th century? Are we forgetting Stalin's tens of millions dead? Are we forgetting the thirty to forty million killed in Mao's Great Leap Forward? The Armenian genocide? Pol Pot's Killing Fields? Rwanda? Each was worse than Hiroshima, yet somehow it is a tragedy of greater magnitude? GreatGatsby 22:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The question isn't whether the statement is fair--it's whether or not that accurately reflects what Spiegelman said. As written, it implies that Spiegelman made that comparison. Can we confirm this? If so, it would probably be best to quote him directly. If that isn't precisely what Spieglman said, then the "two greatest" line should be removed--it certainly is biased and distracting for wikipedia to make that claim BTfromLA 06:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

If it was a comparison from the man I would also like some note of this, as it stands it's categorically false. GreatGatsby 19:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I just looked over the piece spiegelman wrote: he says no such thing. He doesn't explicitly compare Barefoot Gen to MAUS at all (though he does drop a couple of hints about parallels if you want to draw the connection), which basically leaves the note as saying "Spiegelmen wrote an intro to an edition of "Barefoot Gen." " He's written several other intros, too, but unless we want to put together a bibliography of his ocassional pieces, I'm at a loss as to why this one is worth noting in an encyclopedia article. So I cut it. BTfromLA 20:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)