Talk:Art Nouveau

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to visual arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B Class: This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
Architecture Portal
This article covers subjects of relevance to Architecture. To participate, visit the WikiProject Architecture for more information. The current monthly improvement drive is Johannes Itten.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the assessment scale.
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Art Nouveau as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Bulgarian language Wikipedia.

Contents

[edit] Miami and Shanghai

Didn't Miami and Shanghai conserve many samples of Art Nouveau? Or is it Art Deco?

That would be Art Deco you mean, at least in terms of Architecture.

"The movement was the result of intense and flamboyant activity in the visual arts by individuals wishing to change the character of European civilisation. In the first decade of the 20th century it was everywhere. It was simultaneously vulgar and élite, loved and hated. There has been no consensus however, on whether it was a style or a movement. The span of Art Nouveau ranged from 1870 to 1914."

Inserted by an enthusiast who hadn't read through the article. Books on Art Nouveau abound. One could find some early objects from c. 1888 with Art Nouveau touches, if we had a lot of illustrations and a professional audience. No one could find an Art Nouveau object of 1870, however, unless Naturalism and Japonisme were confused with Art Nouveau. Is a "movement" a style that people write about and defend in the press? Is a style something that comes and goes without being discussed? These are empty categories with no information in them. The first sentence is a riff on the word "reform" already in the article. Art Nouveau is not a movement of socialist-anarchists really.
I have added in a couple of informative paragraphs from an orphan article Art Nouveau Jewellery. Are we to have Art Nouveau Textiles Art Nouveau Bookbindings? Too like Pokemon! Wetman 05:27, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Female Artists?

I understand the time period of the art nouveau movement, but I've searched this page and there are no female artists mentioned anywhere. There must be some... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.130.44 (talk) 16:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Art nouveau and New Art

When giving the English translation of the name, because this is the English Wikipedia, you can say "Art Nouveau ('new art', in English)" or "Art Nouveau (French for 'new art')". Please do not say "Art Nouveau ('new art' in French)"; that is ambiguous and might possibly imply that "new art" is a French term and that "art nouveau" is a term from a non-French language. The difference is small, and it's true that most readers will "get" things based on context, but the difference in ambiguity is real and complicates automatic translation etc. When Wikifying an article, pay attention to possible changes in meaning when applying changes in style. Thanks. (unsigned comment by 00:46 UTC, 24 July 2005 138.88.246.236)

[edit] Cinema

Hello,

You should add more imformation about the work that the artist did and who the artist are, because i personlly think that it i very hard to understand. And also i think you should include more about how this movement changed the worlds view on art.

[edit] "Historicism"

As currently used in this article the meaning of the word is obscure and needs elaboration. pmr 11:08, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Replaced it with "eclectic historic revival styles" --Wetman 21:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Art Nouveau, Architecture, Images

I would like to point out that images used within an article should illustrate the subject in a graphical and obvious manner. The scope of Art Nouveau as an architectural style is quite limited, often confined in interiors and as decoration. The recent addition of pictures of St Petersburg buildings is confusing to the reader, while the Vokzal station or the Hotel Europe seem to be known for their Art Nouveau interiors, their neo classical facades, as interesting they may be, hardly illustrate the subject. The extravagant St Louis World Fair entrance or the Bellas Artes Palace in Mexico are confusing enough in that only elements of their architecture display an "Art Nouveau" character. At best, only the dome of the Vokzal station betrays its "Art Nouveau" influence, but then it's much more obvious on the Bellas Artes Palace. Anyway, I'm removing the pictures of facades of St Petersburg buildings, they just aren't illustrating "Art Nouveau" in a useful way for the casual reader, making the article more confusing. Equendil Talk 16:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Similarly, I'd like to cast doubts on the "Demon seated in a garden" by Mikhail Vrubel as illustrating "Art Nouveau". I just don't see it. Equendil Talk 17:01, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I think we should restore the external link to architecture in Riga in the external links section. It seems they have a noteworthy concentration. I found the pictures interesting, appropriate, and not particularly commercial. Hu 18:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

  • It's a commercial site with several layers of ads, that kills the site right away for me, though the domain name in big letters across every picture was pretty effective too.
  • The site is a travel guide for Riga, with just one gallery of pictures related to Art Nouveau and no text. That's rather light as far as content goes. Lack of comments makes it especially bad. An architectural style such as "deconstructivism" is strinkingly obvious in pictures, Art Nouveau is a bit more subtle in that it's more about decoration than the global shape of buildings or global elements of architecture. If you don't direct readers, they'll stare at pictures wondering what they all have in common. Riga's Art Nouveau is rather atypical in places also, which would merit even further explanations. Equendil Talk 20:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
That being said, Riga is certainly noteworthy here, I just don't think this site is the right one. Equendil Talk 20:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contemporary Art Nouveau

How about someone, who knows a bit more about it than I do, add a section about contemporary art nouveau. I can't think of any contemporary buildings in the style, off the top of my head, but a lot of modern bars have very art nouveau interiors, so the style is still alive.--Richy 17:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

No such thing, I'm afraid. Those pub bars, cinemas, etc that seek to emulate the Art Nouveau style cannot claim to be truly Art Nouveau and are nothing but pastiche. Some converted bars, on the other hand, (such as the Regal in Cambridge) are true examples of an Art Deco building undergoing a change of use. Cheers – Agendum 14:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French Art Nouveau glass

An excellent non-commercial site on the major glassworks, deleted no doubt because it is in Italian. Someone may want to use it. --Wetman 13:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scope problems

This page seems rather broad in scope. A general and exhaustive overview of "Art Nouveau" around the world is given without advancing some distinction between the main Art Nouveau "schools" (Paris, Brussels, Glasgow, Nancy...) or centres and local schools of only secondary importance. The paragraphs about creations called "Art Nouveau" in f.a. eastern and northern Europe, south America..., would be more appropriate in sub-categories. Some examples that are given belong to historical and exotic styles (f.a. Bellas Artes in Mexico City, Station of Sint-Petersburg...) and have nothing to do with Art Nouveau except that they were built around 1900.

[edit] Extent of practitioners

The statement "Art Nouveau was a movement that greatly influenced many artists and designers and later progressed onto the De Stijl movement (from 1880―1905) and the German Bauhaus school (early 1920s―1930s)." seems to be an exaggeration and doesn't apply to all AN designers and artists. Does anyone have back up on this? The only confirmation I have is for van de Velde. It is really time to fix this un-cited article. LPFixIt (talk) 02:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I propose we remove Mikhail Vrubel from this article. If we read the Wiki entry about him: "is usually regarded as the greatest Russian painter of the Symbolist movement. In reality, he deliberately stood aloof from contemporary art trends, so that the origin of his unusual manner should be sought in the Late Byzantine and Early Renaissance painting." it states attachment to other categories not AN.--LPFixIt (talk) 01:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The Melbourne City Baths look more like Russian Revival architecture rather than AN. Shall we remove? Is the interior art nouveau? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LPFixIt (talk • contribs) 02:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Again, I think the article should stay focused...Ze'ev Raban was only 15 years old when AN ended. The artist's main article declares he worked in the Bezalel school style and later than the original AN movement.--LPFixIt (talk) 03:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal (Jugendstil)

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
The result was merge Jugendstil into Art Nouveau. --Stomme (talk) 23:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It's easy to walk away from this article (and the Jugendstil one) being rather confused about the use of these terms. Jugendstil is, in fact, the German term for Art Nouveau. Any differences between what one finds in Darmstadt or other places are regional differences, just as in Belgian cities like Brussels, Antwerp and so on... Therefore, I propose merging Jugendstil into Art Nouveau. Please Support, Oppose or Discuss below. --Stomme (talk) 17:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Support

  • Support as nom, since we're just talking about usage for some style and Art Nouveau is primary usage in English --Stomme (talk) 17:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Good call, Stomme. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 17:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • The book Art Nouveau by Sterner supports this by citing active journals in Germany including one called "Jugend". She also cites Jugendstil art associations in Germany.--LPFixIt (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. as long as there are good subsections on the national varients, Renne Macintosh ain't Mucha. Roger Warren (talk) 23:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)Roger Warren

[edit] Oppose

I am concerned that the article will open up to an overly broad scope - which it already suffers from. As long as we do diligence to properly define the artistic style.--LPFixIt (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

  • Can the proponents give us an idea of how the new article would look? If one types "Jugenstil" into the search engine, would the user be directed to Art Nouveau? --LPFixIt (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Including the German name puts some context with the phrase Art Nouveau - see the user's comments above.--LPFixIt (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • As for the article becoming too broad, it simply a matter of recognising that Art Nouveau is the same thing as Jugendstil, just in two different languages (German and French). If the article talks about Art Nouveau in Germany, Austria, and many countries that have adopted the German term—which it does—then it is an article discussing Jugendstil as well. There is certainly a place for specialised articles, as various ideas get developed, but for now it's like having an two different articles on Aubergines and Eggplants. For example, there could be an article on Jugendstil in Germany or in Vienna, and so forth. But the premise of the current article is that Art Nouveau is an international movement, and with internationalisation comes adopted terminology as the style spreads. Which leads to the question: yes, Jugendstil would redirect to Art Nouveau when discussing it in it's general terms. And the header would discuss this (probably a bit better than what I have already added). An honest Jugendstil article would say something like: "Jugendstil is the German term for Art Nouveau, and has been adopted when discussing the use of the style in Germany and in many northern, central and eastern European countries." Hey, I like that! --Stomme (talk) 21:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Also: The book referred to by Sterner is a translation (I think) of the German book Jugendstil: Kunstformen zwischen Individualismus u. Massengesellschaft, published in English as Art nouveau, an art of transition: from individualism to mass society. The bibliography information in the article seems to be for the German publication (1975, Cologne). You might double check that the publication date (and translation) isn't 1982. --Stomme (talk) 22:11, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
  • (not that this means it is proper but) In US colleges, Art Nouveau is presented as AN and secondarily presented as Jugenstil. The hierarchy may be unfair to German culture/language, but it looks as though the French name is primary. I really appreciate the effort Stomme put into this article.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


[edit] Citations

The Sterner book I was using is the third edition: copyright 1977, it is also the first English language version of 1982. Shall I fix in the footnotes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LPFixIt (talk • contribs) 01:04, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jugendstil pronunciation

Okay, I've never messed with an IPA key before, but I wanted to give it a shot for Jugendstil since the article has the pronunciation for Art Nouveau. Could somebody who understands IPA better than I give an opinion? Here is what I get for Jugendstil: [juː gɛnt ʃtil]

Or maybe somebody at least knows where we can find it already converted to IPA... --Stomme (talk) 14:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge - Link to old Jugendstil talk page

Article merged: For reference, here is the old talk-page Jugendstil --Stomme (talk) 23:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)