Talk:Armenian Apostolic Church

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Contents

[edit] RE: "Structure and Leadership" section

This error was so blantantly ovious : - "The Armenian Apostolic Church should not be confused, however, with the Armenian Catholic Church whose patriarch is Nerses Bedros XIX, which is an Eastern Catholic church in communion with the See of Rome (whose bishop is Benedict XVI)."

It just had to be fixed...it makes no sense or is just improperly written. Obviously Nerses Bedros is the leading bishop of the Armenian Catholic Church (one of the 22 Rites of the Catholic Church) which is in union with the Holy See...though it does not make Benedict XVI its bishop. Benedict XVI is the Patriarch of the Western Church (the Latin Rite equivalent to Nerses Bedros). Union with the Universal Petrine Minister(a separate, higher office, though the same individual as the Patriarch of the Western Church) however, does not make the leader of the Catholic Church suddenly Armenian Catholic. No, it simply means that Nerses Bedros is the leader of the Armenian Catholic Church which is in full agreement with the Universal/Catholic Church, headquarted in Rome (The Holy See).

By the way, if the Catholic Church and the Armenian Apostolic Church have recognized their 1600 year old misunderstanding, what is keeping them from re-uniting as they were those first several centuries after Christ?Micael 07:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV / Dubious / Weasel word tags

This paragraph:

St. Gregory is reported to have been imprisoned by the King in an underground pit, called Khor Virab, for 13 years after which he healed the King of an incurable disease, and thereby converted to Christianity.

contains weasel words ("is reported..."). If this has actually been reported by a creditable source (outside the dogmatic canon of the religion), then please post a citation. Additionally, the assertation that the church is:

one of the oldest denominations in Christianity

needs a citation. Additionally,

the labeling of "Gregorian church" is wrong

should be backed up with a citation as well. Thanks! --Kevinmooney 21:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm at a loss as to why a citation should be needed for the "Gregorian" label (though there's some disagreement within the church as to whether they want to call themselves Gregorian... the name refers to St Gregory the Illuminator). As to the words "is reported," I disagree with you, particularly if you are claiming that a citation outside the church's own religious texts is needed. What is being reported is the church's teaching about its origins. The editor, I think, made that clear. If you are looking for a citation to a church source for the story, that would be another matter... however, the objection would not be to "weasel-words," but a simple request for a citation needed. The date of Tiridates' conversion is not normally a matter of great dispute, but a source more closely placed with the church can provide that, too. Here, again, the objection should not be considered to be one related to "weasel-words." By the way, for a cite on the "Gregorian" question, I should note that this is official church teaching. I'll offer, just for the moment (and don't laugh) the closest Armenian reference I have at hand, the Children's Encyclopedia of Armenian Christianity, 1998, 2001, Areg/Arek Publishing House, Vatche Ghazarian tr & ed; page 32. Well. Better cites can certainly be provided, given a bit of time. I mostly have a problem with your use of the "weasel words" objection, instead of simply saying "citation needed." Xenophon777 23:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand what you're saying. "Weasel words" does sound a little belligerent, but it isn't my own expression, it's wikipedia's own specific terminology for when an entry contains the type of phrasing using grammatical quantifiers in the passive voice which says that something has been reported without saying who reported it (see their "Generalization using weasel words" section). So, I'm not calling the editor a weasel or anything, I'm just trying to be as specific as possible :)
I'd agree with you that a citation doesn't have to come from outside the church's teaching, as long as the citation is labeled, one way or another. I think your edits of the Origins and History section went a long way towards making it clearer which parts are undisputed historical facts, and which parts are according to the church's teachings; thanks for that. I think it's a lot clearer and NPOV-compliant now, and should be great once citations are added. --Kevinmooney 15:55, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old talk

Regarding monophysitism and recognizing the authority of the Pope, hasn't this issue been solved in 1996?

COMMON DECLARATION OF JOHN PAUL II AND CATHOLICOS KAREKIN I: [1]

NN 18:15, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

AFAIK the leaders of all churches of the Oriental Orthodoxy (and the so called Nestorians) had meetings with the Vatican and common declarations were issued, stating (rought extract) that both signee

  • don't consider the other one to be heretic
  • hold that the differences in Christology or less important and to a large extent are only differences in terminology
  • are not far enough in the process of reapproachment to be in full communion

Pjacobi 23:12, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Note: The source material at http://www.sain.org/Armenian.Church/intro.txt is GFDL compatible if the source is stated. --Pjacobi 23:12, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"The Armenian church does not hold to monophysite doctrine, however, but confesses the two natures of Christ." This statement is untrue, because why wouldn't they accept the council of Chaledon, if they accept the two natures of Christ? Even if, the church of Armenia have never been a church interested in theological controverses, and they today have close relaton to the pope and the western church, they still reject the council of Chaledon and that Christ would have more than just one nature.User:213.67.173.8

Because of semantics and unofficialy to remain distinct I suppose.

Catholic and Orthodox say: two natures, one divine and one human. the Armenian Church says: one nature, where divine and human are united. Basically the same thing.--Eupator 19:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally I must agree with You, the difference is practically non existence and many bishops from Catholic, Eastern and Oriental churches today say that the schism was rather a confusion of languages. But... the Armenian Church which not accepted the council of Chaledon, are still separated from both east and west, and don’t recognise Christ's to natures. That makes them Monophysits or Miaphysits (which is the more theologically correct term.)

Wrong. It makes the AAC a non-Chalcedonian Church it by no means makes it a Monophysite Church and the AAC isn't and has never been Monophysite and to this day vehemntly rejects such accusations.--Eupator 21:21, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the first official Christian state :

"Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity as its official religion, in 301, when St. Gregory the Illuminator converted Tiridates the Great (the King of Armenia) and members of his court."

What about St. Thomas' conversion of a king in Kerala, Southern India?

or Malta which says it is the oldest Christian country?

[edit] Proposed Oriental Orthodoxy project

There is now a new proposed project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Oriental Orthodoxy for a group which would focus on articles relating to the Oriental Orthodox Church. Any individuals interested in working with such a group should indicate as much there, to allow us to know if there is enough support to actually begin such a project. Thank you. Badbilltucker 14:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish?

Why has an enormous amount of untranslated Spanish text been dumped on this page? It's unsourced too, so before anybody goes rendering it into English they might need to look into the referencing. --Folantin 12:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I've commented it out for the time being in case any reader gets the impression there was a catholicos called "Desconicidos", for example. --Folantin 13:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think a list is necessary for this article, I removed it altogether and added a see also link to the List of Catholicoi of Armenia VartanM 05:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Christian state

<<The Kingdom of Armenia was the first state to adopt Christianity as its religion>> I thought it was Edessa!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.197.48 (talk) 16:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Within the Oriental Apostolic Church, how common are converts from non-Armenian backgrounds? Are these welcomed, as in Eastern Orthodoxy? Thanks--Dawud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.60.55.9 (talk) 11:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)