Talk:Armenian Air Force

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[edit] Su-27

Are there any informations about Su-27 in Armenian Air Force? I'm not sure that Armenian Air Force have them. Kos93 —Preceding comment was added at 16:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I think they not, they purchased Su-25 from Slovakia for 1 million all 10, but when did they got Su-27? Also it costs around 25Mil. So to buy them it will cost 250Mil, with a whole budget of 150MIl, how they can do that? Steelmate 22:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I've seen no such reports. Often reports of such aircraft in former Soviet Union states are actually of Russian Air Force aircraft that were not left behind for the successor state to acquire or else they simply have "basing rights" in the country. In fact, Russia has MiG-29s stationed at Yerevan-Erebuni. Other than the Su-25, the only other fighter they had was a single MiG-25 (and I believe that was retired in 2005). I can't read the text, but it appears to capture an air show demonstration by probably Russian aircraft. Askari Mark (Talk) 23:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

So is it fair to say that even thoes Mig-29s don't belong to Armenia, it is a property of Russian Army? If so then maybe that information needs to be amended as well... Steelmate 00:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I should have removed the Russian MiG-29s as well; however, I need to research whether Armenia actually acquired some for its own air force. Askari Mark (Talk) 00:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Armenia bought 10 Su-25, not Su-27

There is a typo in REGNUM. Read here : http://armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=1167&CID=1348&IID=&lng=eng Steelmate (talk) 20:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

This is not a mistake they have bought 10 Su27S (flanker B)they can purchase russian armement with low price. the regnum article is in the right:http://regnum.ru/news/armenia/518620.html You can see those plane in this video who have been passed in Armenian TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEF4MECyUNw I have seen those Su 27 aircrafts last summer in Armenia.

You can errase those informations but it will not remove the planes. For me wikipedia is a community of men and women who like to share the information.But If you want to select the information in the pretexte that you are not agree with.It's your problem I can't make nothing more. I tell you the truth and wath I seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhergyumri (talk • contribs) 21:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The difficulty here is that nothing has been stated officially by Armenian government, so we need to find some verifiable sources. I found a report on

National reports on arms exports and there is a section on Slovakia 2005, see here : http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/SLK_05.pdf/download . We need to translate it to see what exactly Slovakia sold to Armenia. Steelmate (talk) 17:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Slovakia sold to Armenia 10 SU-25 not in 2005,but in 2004!) http://disarmament.un.org/cab/register_files/Files%20for%20List%20of%20Documents/UN%20Register-Combat%20Aircraft.xls —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhergyumri (talk • contribs) 23:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there has been a great deal of confusion over Armenian aircraft acquisitions, as I’ve mentioned above. I have been conducting research with an eye to rewriting and expanding this article. To date, their fixed-wing aircraft holdings appear to have progressed as follows:

• By 1991: 1 MiG-25, 5 Su-25K (1 of which may have been shot down in Jan. 1993), 1 Su-25UBK; 6 An-2, 1 An-24, 1 An-32; 10 Yak-52. Probably also 2 An-72, 1 Tu-134A, 1 Tu-154B-2, and possibly 2 L-39.
• 2004: 9 Su-25K, 1 Su-25UBK from Slovakia; 2 Il-76 from Russia; 2 L-39C from Ukraine.
• Unknown: Perhaps 4 more An-2, and possibly 2 L-39C from Russia (if not held by 1991).

Most references to a Su-27 acquisition in 2004 (or 2005) are from errant Azeri reports regarding the Su-25 purchase. I did find one source (Azeri) that claimed only a few (no more than 4) of the 10 aircraft ordered were Su-27, with the remainder being Su-25 and Mi-24 gunships,[1] but a contemporary Armenian source clarifies that all were Su-25.[2] So far, I’ve been unable to find any reliable source confirming actual receipt of Su-27s by Armenia; such a signal even should have received extensive coverage in Armenian media – not to mention Azeri media and possibly Russian as well. Nor have I been able to find a photo of a Su-27 (or MiG-29, for that matter) in Armenian AF markings. The airshow Su-27 photo is of a Russian aircraft. The You-Tube recruiting video flyover could be of any air force, since no markings can be seen; it is most likely footage from a joint Armenian-Russian military exercise.

If anyone has reliable sources for Armenian acquisitions, please post them! Askari Mark (Talk) 20:40, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The official report from Slovakia on military exports states it sold aircraft on $800'000 (or roughly $1 mln often quoted) to Armenia in 2005. I highly doubt that several or even 10 Su-27 each costing 25-35mln could have been purchased for 1mln, that wouldn't be a purchase more like a gift. Don't think Slovakia has too much money to give away such expensive gifts to Armenia. Any Su-27 in Armenia if any may be only of Russian 102 military base. Steelmate (talk) 21:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The sale was actually made in 2004 per the UN Register of Conventional Arms, although the reports themselves were published in 2005. It is also possible that these 20-year-old fighters underwent some refurbishment (although I have not seen this reported) and were not delivered until 2005 (which might explain why it became a hot news topic again in Oct. 2005). Slovakia, of course, never had Su-27s to sell. I've come across no info to date that the Russians have based Su-27s in Armenia, although they have appeared at airshows and, I believe, in some military exercises. However, I have come across an unconfirmed report that some MiG-23s were – which may explain reports of Armenian MiG-23s. Likewise, I've come across no reports confirming the presence of Su-17/20 among either nation's forces in Armenia post-dissolution of the USSR; I do recall that some were "taken over" by the Armenians, but heard only that they were never placed into operational service. Askari Mark (Talk) 00:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

that's true Armenia havn't Su 17 or 20 you can erase them. But I'm sure that they have Su-27 and they receive those fighters not from Slovakia in 2005 but from Russia in 2006 because I have seen the planes in 2006 in Armenia but they are flying to high and I was not able to see the markings...But I'm sure that the planes are SU-27 fighters This is defense secret for a small country like armenia this is why they don't show the planes. everywhere I search on the web to see pictures of the planes but there had no pictures even about Mig 29 but I can show you a video where there are a single mig 29 who take off and there are no marking on top. this is not a russian plane but Armenian mig 29 i think. And I would to say that the russians havn't Su 27 in Armenia :

1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0KZfS0RoA

2)http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://pilot.strizhi.info/2007/06/08/3948 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhergyumri (talk • contribs) 15:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion and update

As promised, I’ve updated and expanded this article based on the research I’ve been conducting. With all the conflicting and missing pieces of information “out there,” this was not easy, so I’ve used my professional judgment to try to sort out the most likely story. Obviously, there’s more research to be done.

One thing we could really use is more insight into the 1992-94 operations in NK. Frankly, the ACIG article is the only one I could find with useful details. More organizational information would also be useful, especially in the AAF’s formative years. I’m sure there’s a very intriguing story to be told about its origins and early development, but it doesn’t appear to have yet become available in English.

Most changes I’ve made to the inventory tables are self-evident. I’ve chosen to break out those aircraft whose service entry is debatable into separate notes. In this way we can identify aircraft which may have entered service, but for which we simply lack reliable sources – at present. For instance, while I respect Mhergyumri’s claim to have actually seen Armenian Su-27s, neither editors’ personal witness, blogs or YouTube are considered “reliable sources” by Wikipedia, so to include them would be a matter of “original research”. (BTW, I have come upon a claim that a particular Russian source may provide evidence for a 2005 Su-27 sale to Armenia, and I am going to dig further to see whether I can turn up a FBIS English translation. (I do not have a copy in Russian either, just a reference to such an article.)

Anyhow, please let me know how you think we can further improve this. We ought to be able to get this to at least an A-class article in 2008. Askari Mark (Talk) 03:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Good job Askari Mark, it is tough to get streight facts, but you improved overall the article tremendously. Some proof reading and getting rid of weasel word will help and of course more references. By the way if you need to translate something from russian, let me know. Steelmate (talk) 21:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Restored images. VartanM (talk) 22:45, 24 February 2008 (UTC)