Talk:Arizona Cardinals

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[edit] Improvement drive

National Football League is currently a candidate on WP:IDRIVE. Vote for it if you are interested in contributing.--Fenice 20:04, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Racine Cardinals

Could someone please give me a source that confirms that they were officially called the "Racine Cardinals" in 1920 and 1921? All the sources I have say that when they became a charter member of the league in 1920, they were officially known as the "Chicago Cardinals", including:

Even all of the NFL official records list the team as the "Chicago Cardinals" in 1920. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:57, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


Refer to the the minutes of the second APFA organizational meeting at a car showroom in Canton on 17 Sep 1920, where Art Ranney, a partner in the Akron Pros ownership group who took the minutes, erroneously listed the team as "Racine Cardinals, Wisconsin," mistaking them for a team based in Racine. While many Chicago area teams at the time named themselves after their street or neighborhood - remember, there were several pro or semi-pro teams in Chicago in 1920 - this wasn't the case for teams in other (smaller) cities and towns, probably one source of confusion. Then again, there was plenty of free beer provided for the meeting, despite Prohibition! (source: Professional Football Research Association: "1920: Associating in Obscurity," by PFRA Research, unknown date). One possible explanation is that, at least until a Racine team joined the NFL in 1922, the Cardinals were referred to as either Racine or Chicago by fans and press. Back then, what professional sports teams were called was far more informal and fluid than today, and it usually took several years before a common name was universally accepted by fans and the media. 211.59.191.28 10:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks, I'll look into that. This Racine/Chicago issue should be put into the article. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 12:13, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Old Pictured Cardinals Logo!

This is Alakzam! I just found out on Chris Creamer's sportslogo.net that the old logo that the Arizona Cardinals used until until 2004 was ACTUALLY first used in 1982, when they were the St. Louis Cardinals of football. You can check out the old Cardinals logos and see the logo that Cardinals originally used when they were in St. Louis.

  • Quite frankly, the Cardinals were using that old logo on their helmets since 1960. [1] Zzyzx11 (Talk) 13:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
And this quote on the Cardinals web site when they announced their new 2005 logo [2]:
The Cardinal head that has served as the team's logo since 1960 -- when the franchise moved from Chicago to St. Louis -- has been subtly transformed into a sleeker, meaner creature.
Zzyzx11 (Talk) 14:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My Response!

OK! I believe you! I even remember watching old NFL Films that showed the Arizona Cardinals having that particular logo on their helmet. However, I was just wondering. Wouldn't be interesting if we also included that particular St. Louis Cardinals football logo onto the Arizona Cardinals article, since it WAS part of the Cardinals history.

Also, I'm a bit nervous to put the old St. Louis Cardinals logo on the article, since I'm afraid that I'll break copyright laws.

Yes, the logo is probably still copyright. See those NFL video games that are containing old football teams which use old NFL/AFL logos. Well, the article currently contains the old Chicago Cardinals logo and many sports team articles include the old logos such as the Tennessee Titans *cough* Oilers and Kansas City Chiefs *cough* Texans. Yes, if we're talking about the old St. Louis Cardinals football team then it pertains to the Arizona Cardinals' history. :-) --J. Nguyen 04:25, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent cleanup: References

The references for this article were a mess. I made the following changes:

  • 1) Converted untitled links to titled inline references.
  • 2) No need to link to EVERY individual page. I simply cited the relevent frontpage, and used the <ref name=XXXX> tag to multi-reference. Bringing people to the main Cards page at PFR is probably enough.
  • 3) Moved the references mess to external links and condensed. The references section should be used for inline references. Use the <ref> </ref> or <ref name=XXXX> </ref> tags in articles to create inline refs, then use <references /> in the ==References== section to recall the refs list. Also, again no need to site the ENTIRE NFLhistory linescores pages one by one. A single link will do.

Still needed to do:

  • A) We need to finish referencing the article. The history section is lean on references from the 1930's-1990's. We got the beginning and the end real good, now we need the middle.
  • B) Perhaps a more friendly organization, such as a decade-by-decade organization, with brief overall notes and highlights. An entire season-by-season review (as done in the 1920's already) makes for a thick read, though even that is OK if we organize with subheadings and better divisions. As it stands now, the writing and organization is a little scatterbrained. I may get to this, but don't let anyone else stop if they get to it first.

--Jayron32 04:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV - Playoff Year

  • "Magic seemed to be in the air that Saturday afternoon in Dallas"
  • "...a noisy domed stadium that gave significant homefield advantage."

This whole section seems like it was ripped from an Arizona Newspapers account of the game. I consider myself a fan of the Cardinals, but this section is really biased and probably does not require this amount of detail.

  • I agree with you, I removed the two lines you quoted above and removed several other POV and weasel words as well. I plan to add a few references to the article shortly. Thanks for bringing that to attention and feel free to make other changes yourself as you see necessary. --Nebular110 17:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ownership (One Family)

What about Pittsburgh? Hasn't that always been owned by the Rooney family?

WAVY 10 15:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess this is the place to put this comment. I read the article, we have 1920 than in some unnamed year they merge with the Steelers during WWII and then all of the sudden they move to St. Louis in 1960 apparently not taking the previously merged Steelers with them as they are still in Pittsburgh. I work less than a mile north of the Cards practice site and while not a friend, would be willing to see if I could get more information on their history, unless others have it here (and less biased). Autkm 05:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

  • There is more info than that. But what can you say about a team that's like the Washington Senators of the NFL? More needs to be said (which I just started to mention in the article) about this team's ability to survive for as long as it has with virtually nothing to recommend it or to show for it. One interesting item that I don't think was mentioned was their early 1950s trade of Ollie Matson for 11 members of the L.A. Rams. A weird highlight, but the Cardinals' history is full of weird highlights. Wahkeenah 19:25, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Repetitiveness

Having just done some work on this article, I now have to wonder whether it is too repetitive. That is, there may be a bit too much information in the intro (both before and after I worked on it) that is also restated in the more detailed portion of the article. Comments, anyone? Wahkeenah 19:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cardinals Logo

What happened to AZCardinals.png? That's the true logo! The other logo is just a darker cardinal red, plus it's head is tilted back! If anyone can bring AZCardinals.png back, then that would be awesome. Alakazam 22:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Why is criticism of the current Cardinals uniforms not allowed? I realize that it's subjective but the Cardinals uniforms in the St. Louis era of the mid-70's were really great, and I think that the current uniforms are horrible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.64.71.25 (talk) 22:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History section

Since this section is mirrored by History of the Arizona Cardinals, should this section be removed since they are redundant and will eventually begin to diverge through independent editing?--Son of Somebody 18:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The Oldest Team: Contrary to most concise NFL histories, the Cardinals are not the oldest team. The town team that became the Green Bay entry in the 1921 League, started playing with professional players in 1895 i Green Bay. One year, I think 1916, they did not play, but I don't think the Morgan Athletic Club team played continuously since its begining in 1898 or 1899, either. The Packers have never officially put forth this history as that of the team because of Lambeau's prestige and the myth that he was the founder in 1918. Curly Lambeau merely became the captain of the town team that had formed, virtually, on an annual basis since 1895. See "The History of the Green Bay Packers" Part One, by Larry Names. Gary GetzinNFL

According to the NFL the Cards are the oldest team. Go to the NFL web site and look at History 1896-1910. --Mickeyp2814 (talk) 16:54, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

to Whomever posted the following "On Thanksgiving Day 1976, the Cardinals suffered a controversial loss to the Dallas Cowboys. Cardinal tight end J. V. Cain, running an apparent game-winning route, was shoved out of the end zone by Dallas defensive backs Cliff Harris and Charlie Waters in what appeared to be obvious interference, but a penalty was not called.[6]"

IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THIS ENTIRE STATEMENT NEEDS TO BE DELETED. THE CITATION PULLS UP AN EMPTY PAGE. How in the world can anyone independently verify that Harris's defense "appeared to be obvious interference"? Were you at the game? And, there is nothing about the yardage record set by Terry Metcalf in 1975, no discussion of the Cardinals playoff teams from 1974-1976 that lost in the first round, no discussion of the 1982 Cardinals playoff team either. I added that information previously and it was deleted. Why was that information deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.64.71.25 (talk) 22:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ArizonaCardinals 1000.png

Image:ArizonaCardinals 1000.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 10:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:ArizonaCardinals 1000.png

Image:ArizonaCardinals 1000.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 17:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nice Work

Just wanted to say this is a nice looking page. Great work. All who have added content have really done their home work! --Mickeyp2814 (talk) 16:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AZ 3534.gif

Image:AZ 3534.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AZ 3535.gif

Image:AZ 3535.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AZ 3536.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AZ 3537.gif

Image:AZ 3537.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)