Wikipedia talk:Argentina-related regional notice board/Archive 2

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Contents

Translations

I just created a stub for our national flower, the ceibo (actually that's a redirect to Erythrina crista-galli). I took most of it from the Spanish Wikipedia (es:Ceibo). On doing this, and after translating several National parks of Argentina articles, I realized that we need translators (or at least helpful bilingual people) with a background on botany, zoology, ecology and similar. Otherwise we're missing very good descriptive content. --Pablo D. Flores 12:35, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Problem is, there are very few of us actually working in Argentine related articles, not to mention specialist. Besides you and me, there are a couple more with isolated contributions (User:Jfa, User:Maberk, User:Qsebas) or focused around football ( User:Elpincha, User:Sebastiankessel), or not into Argentine topics at all (User:Luis María Benítez). Perhaps it would be wiser to ask for help at some spanish-language-related place? Try perhaps Wikipedia:WikiProject Latin America countries.
BTW, good work with the National Parks. Texts are not so complete, but give a good idea about the topic, and connects to other information sources for those interested in knowing more. -Mariano 14:50, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Hoaxer is back

Known Argentine vandal author of VFD:Rana lechuza, VDF:Blue tiger, VFD:Vandera, VFD:Pumpkin spoof, VFD:Gauchos Pesados, VFD:Glamorous cumbia and God knows what else, brought as a new artice: Eduardito De La Puentes. Please, do not move this page to Eduardo de la Puente if you would like to fix it in order match the journalist, but rather create a new article so this can be deleted and the hoax is not kept in the history. Thank you very much, Mariano 08:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Nomination for adminship

People, I propose we nominate Mariano for adminship. He has the experience and the required # of edits to be an admin, besides, it will come useful for all the edits he's doing. See here Administrators.

If we get some kind of agreement in this page, I'll propose the nomination on Requests_for_adminship.

--Sebastian Kessel 16:49, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Wow, let's first ask Mariano if he wants to be an Admin! :o)
I've been reading a bit about what does it mean to be an Admin. Basically its just an user with the ability of deleting articles and uploaded files, protecting and unprotecting pages and blocking and unblocking IP addresses(FAQs); that is: Fighting Vandalism. It's true that I've been prosecuting a few vandals lately, but thanks god (cross fingers, touch left one) we don't have any serious vandal on Argentine articles.
What I want mean is that I'm not sure we actually need and Argentine Admin. But if you decide we need one, I would be of course honoured to go for it. Sebas, thanks for your vote of trust. -Mariano 08:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Let's hope you don't need to use your powers very often. :) --Sebastian Kessel 15:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
We don't need an admin, but it's always good to know that a capable person, someone you can trust, is there to set things straight in case anything goes wrong. I support. --Pablo D. Flores 16:00, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Pablo's message was enough for me :). He is nominated in Requests_for_adminship, if you wish, please show support. --Sebastian Kessel 16:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

New Categories

I've created two new categories:

[[Category:Boca Juniors footballers]] and [[Category:Footballers in Argentina by club]]

I've mimicked the Spanish hierarchy for this (see [[Category:Footballers in Spain by club]]), and even when we do have [[Category:Argentine footballers]], the former one should group them by club, whereas the latter just shows that they are from Argentina.

People willing to help categorize all football players by their club is more than welcome.

You can avoid the nowiki tags and insert category names by prefixing an extra : to the name: Category:Footballers in Argentina by club. The question I have is, with players being sold and bought all the time, will everybody keep track? Or the categories will include players who were in a team but are no more? --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 18:01, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
They should include players who played for the club, regardless of their current status. At least, that is the way the spanish categories are organized and the way I started to categorize the players. For example, Maradona is still in Category:Argentine footballers. It may be too much to handle if we try to keep up with the market. Besides, around 25 players are in a team at one point...

PS: Thanks for the tip. --Sebastian Kessel 18:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Glamorous cumbia

Does anybody know why Glamorous cumbia was undeleted? --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 22:12, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Well I checked myself. Shoaler undeleted it, after seeing that the VfD hadn't had much support. He now knows what the problem was. Now the article should be deleted again, but some of the text, IMHO, should be incorporated into another article (Argentine cumbia?). --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 01:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Pablo, only an administrator can actually delete an article. It was restored because the voting had no result, and your comment (some of the text, should be incorporated into another article) makes it feel we should do that other article before deleting Glamorous cumbia (what I think would be the best, got any spare hour? :) -Mariano 08:41, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I've just created Argentine cumbia. It needs expansion and checking, but it's a start. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 17:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed that Glamorous cumbia has a German counterpart. Anyone who reads German and who can check what the people over there wrote or translated, and leave a message? --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 10:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't seam to be a translation of Glamorous cumbia, but rather an article about Romantic cumbia in Argentina, with a short article-less reference to Glamorous cumbia. Check altavista translation[1]. I thin we could leave a message in English in the Talk Page. -Mariano 10:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Admin - Leave of Absence

I want to thank Sebastian for the nomination, and all those who voted took a minute to vote at Requests for adminship . I hope I will fulfil your expectations.

On the other hand, I'm afraid that, starting today, I will take a Leave of Absence on a last-minute all-of-the-sudden imperative "mission to take pictures in order to make them freely available at the Wikipedia" (a.k.a. "vacas"). I don't know if I will be able to get my hands on a computer, but I might be only for an hour or so. I'll be back next wednesday (7th) or thursday.

Take care, Mariano 06:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, it seams I'm going nowhere. A piece of advice, if you are planning on going to Bulgaria, check wether you need a Visa or not... - Mariano 18:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Admin

"contact administrator Mariano for assistance."... It looks like it went to his head already. :)

jajaja, tipico argentino, eh? :)

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 19:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Shut up or I'll blok you! and its Sir Mister Administrator for you. :oP
-Mariano 07:30, 1 September 2005 (UTC)


Oh dear, it started... :) --Sebastian Kessel Talk 17:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Legal System

Hi, everybody, Tcalle has created Argentinian Legal System. It is a prime candidate for VfD unless we really improve it. I tidied up a little bit, but I'm going to need lots of help building it... Maybe we should contact User:Tcalle, to help. He probably has some ideas in mind.

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 17:32, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I would prefer someone to fix both Law of Argentina and Constitution of Argentina rather than deleting them. I think they are the kind of thing the Wikipedia should have. Models for the constitution are United States Constitution or the Spanish model with different constitutions (Spanish Constitution of 1978), or at least a brief description such as that of Constitution of Slovenia. For the Law system: Law of the United States and Law of Australia. I'm afraid I have neither the time nor the knowledge to do it myself. Pablo? Mariano(t/c) 07:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I've been wanting to get an Argentine constitution article. I'll take a look at it, since the important things are already there. Law of Argentina is much much too broad for me to tackle. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:14, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


Election and politics articles

I propose we adopt a standard format for articles on elections. We have Argentine presidential election, 2003 and then Elections in Argentina has a number of red links named Argentine elections, YYYY. Now a gazillion articles link to the 2003 elections article, but most do so through {{Politics of Argentina}}, so changing the template will solve the redirect problem.

My idea:

  1. Let's keep articles on parties separate from articles on elections, template-wise. The now long dead Intransigent Radical Civic Union, for example, has nothing to do with the 2003 elections. Maybe there should be a template with the major parties of today and historically important parties.
  2. Let's name all articles using the same format. I propose Elections in Argentina, YYYY. It avoids the adjective (which everyone gets differently) and keeps the trend of the main article. We can make a bunch of redirects later.
  3. Let's actually write the articles on the previous elections. :) At least presidential winners and/or some comment on the political implications.
  4. Argentine presidential election, 2003 should be moved and incorporate more info; we have es:Elecciones argentinas (2003) to get data.

--Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 22:25, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I like it. :) --Sebastian Kessel Talk 22:30, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the names of the elections, I checked the election categories of other countries and it seams to be common to add presidential, parliament, regional or other adjectives to the name of the article. Category:Elections in Spain, Category:Elections in Belgium, Category:Elections in New Zealand. Anyhow, there seams to be no standard on this, so we can do either with or without presidential. It could be included, though, since they are somehome more important than the other ones, and then make a redirection from the name without it.
What about the comming elections? Does anyone have any info to create the article before they actually take place? Mariano(t/c) 07:27, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
As for the names, I would go for shortness. If you're looking for info directly (rather than following a link), then you'll probably start by searching without qualifications. Unless you're an Argentine voter, also, you may not remember which kind the election was. I noticed "general elections" articles; I think the adjective is rather superfluous, as long as we specify the scope of the article in the first paragraph.
A standard for content and layout we also need, but that's secondary. I'd be inclined to include summarized results and some comments, and point to the sources directly.
For the coming elections, if we agree on the comments thing above, we may explain it's a legislative election (point to the main article to explain the procedure), comment on the slaughter and mishmash of candidates in Buenos Aires Province, on the fact that Santa Fe won't employ Ley de Lemas, on the "plebiscitary" nature of this elections for Kirchner, etc. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 10:34, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I stoped worring too much about names some time ago. For the format, either the english or spanish versions are good. I like the spanish version with all the candidates for presindet, and the rest of the elections divided by province. Perhaps we could add the Second place and vote counts for Governors (if data available). -Mariano(t/c) 11:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I would not put "Presidential", since they sometimes also include Senadores and Diputados, and would mislead people. As far as how to divide them, the nationwide elections (President, referendums, etc...) should have a total and a breakdown by province (if we find one) the rest should have a main page explaining the process and a breakdown by province as well. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:54, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
About the coming elections, I started a page on the spanish wikipedia es:Elecciones argentinas (2005), but I basically let it die, because nobody helped me, and because I personally decided not to vote anymore, so I lost interest. If anyone wishes to translate it and expand it (because is quite limited), go ahead. Jfa X <<afJ>> 17:32, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

South Shetland Islands

please go to the talk page, there is a big discussion about to start. English wikipedia says that they discovery was in 1819 but i have govenment web pages (.gov domains) that talks about argentinian fishing permissions in 1818 User:Argentino 21:43, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Football Player Infobox

Hey, guys I'm going to Football Database [[2]] and getting stats on all Argentine Football players. I already did A-B (going alphabetically) and added the infobox to those players who I have stats for. Once I finish with the ones this site has stats for, I'll do some research and finish the rest. Help is appreciated. :)

PS: If you continue, please do it alphabetically and let us know where you finished so we can do it in an organized way.

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Great source of Info! careful, if statistics show 0 - 0, it might be actually No Data. About the Template, sometimes it gets kinda wide (Guillermo Barros Schelotto), and there is one question: For 3 seasons in one club, should be add the total matches and goals and put it in one line or have each season separately? -Mariano(t/c) 07:18, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Is it really redundant to have a table of goals per season?

The current scheme has only goals per team, so if the player stays 3 seasons in one team we know how many matches and goals he had in those 3 years, but not for the season specifically.

Options are:

  1. Keep both (table, and infobox)
  2. Put the data in the info-box season by season
  3. loose the data and have lees information.

Mariano(t/c) 15:54, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Is it ok if I go with 3? It is really that relevant? I would cite a particular outstanding season if the player has one (like Palermo scoring 20 times in 19 games) but asides from that, seems like a "waste of good bytes"? :)
--Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Argentina?

Guys, this page is evolving from a "Notice Board" to a project. Shouldn't we move some of the content to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Latin_America_countries, or create a Wikipedia:Wikiproject_Argentina?

Just an idea.

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:12, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I would go for WikiProject Argentina. I feel, however, that for this to make sense it is necessary that there are at least two kinds of users, 1) those who can contribute from time to time or just appreciate having articles and news on Argentina, and 2) those who do and want to contribute to make articles at a good rate, with research and sources and all. Group 1 will just take a look at the notice board, Group 2 will also join the WikiProject. We could do this already, but if there are not enough people in both groups, splitting the page seems unnecessary.
Of course when I speak of groups I don't mean a clear split, or membership or anything of the kind. The idea is that the board should start to function like a board - attracting visitors actively looking for news and articles on Argentina. Once this is done, the project will be a natural step forward. The sad reality being that at present we're just cuatro gatos (give or take), setting up a project sounds prematurish. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, though. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 21:52, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Pablo, we are really four crazy cats, and sometimes the RNB seams too big for us. A Wikiproject demands much more work and attention, which I prefer to dedicate to the Wikipedia itself. Hope some day we get more steady contributors to need one! -Mariano(t/c) 07:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Good point, I haven't been the best contributor lately... Maybe we'll get some more guys to help out. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:59, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, if you don't mind me stepping in, I could be the fifth cat. I know, I'm not Argentinian, but the fact that I lived for quite a few years in Mendoza and my love for the country can make for the difference, I hope. I fully support the idea of an Argentinian Wikiproject. Hugs! Shauri Yes babe? 23:49, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
I have nothing against the move, as long as it really matters. A WikiProject implies work, guidelines and policies, and advertising: looking for contributors and trying to attract the occasional editor who retouches things here and there or suggests something. There should be more coordination with the Spanish Wikipedia, too. Shauri, welcome aboard. You can never have too many wikiholics in a project. :) --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 01:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

support project. poco a poco things will be filled. and stuff will be more structured. if one day we all leave the people that follow us will have a better idea of what was decided and why so. a NB can not fullfill this. i don't think it needs much more attention. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 12:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Placebox

Now that the Placebox thing is more or less settled, maybe we should create the WikiProject Argentina and also Wikipedia:Placebox or something like that. The development of the box has been a bit messy... I wrote some instructions at Template talk:Placebox-begin. Let's put everything together. How do you exactly start a WikiProject? --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:56, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I think you just click on the redlink and start editing. :) --Sebastian Kessel Talk 16:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
YAY! I did it!!! Just click here WikiProject Argentina. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 16:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Patentes

I just created Argentine License Plates. Please copyedit and improve since I wrote it in 20 minutes before leaving the office. I plan to add some pictures tomorrow. :)

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 00:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

People from...

Hi friends, I encourage you to check the biographies of Argentine people and add them the category "People from... " (e.g.: People from Buenos Aires, Rosario, etc.). I think it would be nice :-).

Mxcatania

To Do

Shouldn't we move the To Do to the wikiproject?

--Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:59, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I've been meaning to do that, so I've just done it. I believe we should also reformat it: no columns but comma-separated lists, and articles divided in categories of the kind "people", "places", "institutions", "events", "others". --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 17:49, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Check Spanish

Hi,... couldn't really think of anywhere else to find people who speak Spanish, so I guess this is it. I was wondering if anyone could help me check the spelling and grammar of Image:Regiones de China.PNG? If you find any errors, please contact me. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! -- ran (talk) 04:11, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

adjective vs noun

from what I have seen there is a move from adjective to nouns when referring to countries. (A german newspaper is not necessarily from Germany, can be from BsAs (Argentinisches Tageblatt), therefore Category:Something of Fooland is more clear) The following vote is about such an issue: Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_November_10#Category:French_naval_ships_and_sub-categories Tobias Conradi (Talk) 21:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Less so in cultural matters. If it pertains to the country as such, yes, usually nouns are preferred. Thus, probably "Government of Argentina" but "Argentine novelists". -- Jmabel | Talk 02:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Democratic Republican of Congo novelists? FYROManian novelist? If it where only for Argentina adjective could be used everywhere. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 18:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Pictures at presidencia.gov.ar

Please check this: de:Benutzer:ALE!/Bilder_Presidencia_Argentina. It's a user page. It has a copy of an email exchange where the webmaster of http://www.presidencia.gov.ar says that all the materials published there are for public use. And they have a lot of pictures (though uncategorized). I've uploaded a couple of them to Commons following an example I found, under the general GNU license. See for example Felisa Miceli. Should we ransack presidencia.gov.ar? I'm not very satisfied with the email; maybe we should try to write in representation of the WikiProject as a whole... --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:01, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I think a second email would be worth sending. The only problem would be if this GNU enthusiastic is giving us a permission that he is not authorized to give. Best would be to have an official answer, and create a corresponding template for such pictures. Mariano(t/c) 13:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)