Talk:Ardeatine massacre

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1 Bandiera Rossa
2 Loaded language
3 Structure
4 Need to expand

[edit] Bandiera Rossa

Non comunist group , this is not true . They were comunists .

[edit] Loaded language

For Piero Montesacro. Am simply a little concerned that the loading of the language will damage the article. If it seems too loaded/judgemental (e.g. "atrociously") or too graphic (e.g. "heads were blown off" and "crawled their way to other corners to agonize to death") people without a 'cultural' awareness of the events are likely to see the article as less balanced/realiable. r 11:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I would understand your concern about the reliability of the article if I could agree that the language was actually "loaded".

However, at present, and based on what I am reading here, I can't.

In fact, last time I checked, it seemed to me that articles reliability was (mainly) based on sources and facts.

Heads were actually blown off or they were not? And, if they in fact were, why should this fact be omitted? Or, is there a gentler manner to best describe this fact in plain English?

Again, if the foresinc pathologists that were on place at the time the corpses were exhumed in order to try to identify the victims concluded that some of them most probably survived enough to crawl to death in a corner, sealed - while still alive - inside an improvised mass grave by the Germans, why should this fact be hidden and, which words would - in your opinion - be adequate to best describe their atrocious fate?

Furthermore, what do you mean with "a 'cultural' awareness of the events"? I thought that our purpose here was to contribute to such awareness (AFAIK we are "spreading knowledge worldwide", no less...) and I can't imagine how this could possibly be done by hiding facts and avoiding calling things with their proper names. --Piero Montesacro 13:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not supposed to be a diatribe or soapbox. The (initial) copy-editing of the article was to make both the language çlear and facts presented impartially (i.e. neutral point of view. Indeed there are some poignant facts raised in the article, however many of these are submerged in "loaded language". Also too much reliance is made from the cinematic representation of the events rather that actually what occurred. friedfish 20:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Structure

The introduction is now far too large - we need to either put most of it under the "massacre" heading, or, IMHO better, split into "run up" to the event, "the massacre", and "after the massacre" r 11:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. --Piero Montesacro 13:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Just tried to split the article contents in subsections (according to the suggestion by r above)... Sorry for the lack of edit summaries, but this is what I was trying to do with my latest edits... --Piero Montesacro 00:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need to expand

The Ardeatine Massacre is under reported in history, and especially on the Web. I hope someone can take some time to adequately expand this article.

Recent action includes a decision in a court case about a journalist's attempt to label the victims as communists. Here is a post from a usually reliable physicist in Italy, covering that matter, with a few links: http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/via-rasella-the-truth-and-the-liar/

Surprisingly few photos of the memorial are available that I can find. Can we find someone in Rome to update and expand? It would be good to link to some of the panorama photos of the site that are available: http://ww2panorama.org/panoramas/roma Edarrell (talk) 10:23, 17 December 2007 (UTC)