User:Arcayne/busywork 3

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I thought this revert was premature, but I understand the policy related-reasons for its removal. Therefore, before I add the same arguments, it needs citation before reintroduction, as I become responsible for the content of the sock's argument once reintroduced.
I will update as time allows - Arc


[edit] The controversy over the name of the Arabian Gulf / Persian Gulf

The Arabian Gulf (Arabic:الخليج العربي) is the accredited name in the Arabian countries and some other countries as well, but the accredited name in Turkey and the Ottoman Empire documents was Basra Körfezi, means "Gulf of Basra". This place is the water which lies to the east of the Arabian Peninsula and to the west of Iran, it known by different names throughout the history. The total length of the Gulf coast about 3300 Kilo Meter, the share of Iran has about one third ONLY, but the rest of the gulf owned by Arab Countries. The Arabs lived in the both sides of the gulf, in the western section we find (Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq), but in the eastern side of the gulf we find Ahvaz and Linga that actually called Arabestan Region by Iranian themselves, because the people who lives there are Arabs, Arabstan Region has been colonized by Iran long time ago, people of that region admitted that too, the same thing goes TODAY with the three Island (Greater Tunb, Lesser Tunb, and Abu Musa) of United Arab Emirates today.
some of the current and old names
  • The Arabian Gulf is the approved name in the Arabic language, and in term of use in all of the Arab League countries, also used in another several languages as well, moreover, it is used by the United Nations in Arabic documentation and the Arabian geographic societies. “Note”: Arabic language is one of the six used languages in the United Nation.
  • The Persian Gulf is used in Iran (in Iranian newspapers and media, by Arabic speakers of Iran), also It's used widely in other languages as well.
  • The Gulf of Basra is the name that was common in the documents belonging to the Ottoman Empire and Turkey today, and it’s still used on a small scale in some foreign countries also some Arab countries too, especially Iraq (but the official name is the Arabian Gulf).
  • The Gulf of Qatif it’s used in some countries too, this name is actually of one of Saudi Arabia cities that consider one of the Arabian Shiite cities.
  • The Gulf of Iraq is the name that was used in Iraq in old days.
  • The Gulf of Oman is the name that a lot of Arabs used it in the past because it's where the water of the gulf started when the water comes from the Arabian Sea, nowadays the term Gulf of Oman is used for the begin side of the gulf.
  • The Gulf of Bahrain is the name that used in Bahrain and some other Arab countries in the past, that's proved by the name of the country itself because Bahrain mean's "two seas", that meant the body of the water that lies of both coast of the country.
  • The Gulf it’s used widely today in the geographical maps to avoid the Arab - Persian problem, which it’s not satisfied both of them.
  • The Persian Sea is known among SOME of Muslim Arabs on the coast side to separate the Arabian Peninsula and Persia.
  • The Gulf of Ajam it has the same reasone of the "Persian Sea", because the word Ajam (Arabic:العجم) means the people who doesn't speak Arabic and come to the Arabian Peninsula to live or work, based on that the Gulf had this name too.
  • The Islamic Gulf has been raised by some Islamic thinkers and has been given to Khomeini but he rejected that name.


stories of some names
  • The oldest known name is the name "Sea of God" until the third millennium BC, then it became the "Sea of great sunrise" until the second millennium BC, then it called "Sea of Alkeldan" in the first millennium BC. After tha, it became the "South Sea" during the second half of the first millennium BC.
  • The Persian called it "Persian Sea". It was known in the first place by the Persian King Darius (486-831 BC) in his speech "on the sea which links between Egypt and Persia". Also it seems that Alexander the Great was the first for such designation fired after journey, of his "prince of sea" Niarchos in 326 BC. He came back from India then when he was by the coast to the Arabia, he did not know the Arab side of the Gulf, and that what made the Alexander to call it by that name "Persian Gulf", and remained via inheritance, after that this name leaked through Greece to Western countries and it was used by some of the Arabs as well because of the power of Persia.
  • The Romans called it the "Arabian Gulf" and one of those who launched name is Pliny the Younger in the first century AD, Pliny said Khorramshahr is a town located in the far side of the Arabian Gulf, where the start of the most prominent Arabia, which is built on an artificial high and The Tigris River (Arabic:نهر دجلة) on the right side as the Euphrates River (Arabic:نهر الفرات) to the left. The area on which it is based on - has three miles of length, lies between those two rivers. it's made by the at the Great Alexander, in order to call it Alexandria, However, the flooding of the rivers destroy it. Antioukhos rebuilt it again and call it by his name, and Since it demolished for the second time, Pasines rebuilt it for the third time, also he built dams, to respond the water and called it by his name, The length of this dams was three miles and breadth was slightly lower, at the first it was more than one mile far of the bank, also it has its own port over there.
  • The Arabs called it "Gulf of Basra" or "Gulf of Oman", "Gulf of Bahrain" or "Gulf of Qatif" because these three Arabian cities was controlling the body water plus using and arranging the movement of the ships, also the name of "Sea of Basra" refers to the Islamic conquest in the era of Omar bin al-Khattab. We find that the first Grammarians such as "Alkhlil Ben Ahmed Alfarahidy" (Arabic: الخليل بن أحمد الفراهيدي) used it, and the Geographers such as Yaqut al-Hamawi (Arabic:ياقوت الحموي) and Al-Dhahabi(Arabic: الذهبي), also some historians such as "Khalifa bin Khayyat" and religious scholars such as Ibn Taymiyya. Although the name "Sea of Persia" commonplace in the Islamic era, especially among Muslim Persians and Some of those Persians even use both names in the same page, some Arabs called it "Iraq Gulf" during the "Abbasid succession", but Dr. Emad Hafiz said that (The name of the Arabian Gulf has been known before the Islam and continued after the Islam to the population of the Arabian peninsula and its environs).
  • The Turkish called it "Gulf of Basra" during the Ottoman Empire that covered most of Arabian countries at that time, even today in Turkey it’s called "Gulf of Basra".
The dispute over name
1. Scientific Dispute
Some western researcher started to abandon the name Persian Gulf, Among those
  • The English Roderick Owen, who visited the Arabian Gulf and issued a book on 1957 that called "Gold Bubble- Arabian Gulf documents" (Arabic:الفقاعة الذهبية – وثائق الخليج العربي), he said that when he visited the Arabian Gulf and he though it’s the Persian Gulf because he didn’t see any other name in the geographical maps except this one. When Roderick Owen was close to the area of the gulf he said the most correct name "Arabian Gulf" because most of the population on both coastline are Arabs either the Arabian countries or the Iranian side (Arabstan). He said: «The facts and fairness require calling it Arabian Gulf».
  • The French writer (J.J. Berrebi) “Jean-Jacques Berrebi” said it’s Arabian Gulf, in the book he wrote it about the events of the region and the strategic importance, says: «the section that passes by Karun River from Ahvaz Region with the bottom section of Mesopotamia the geographic and economic unit.
Actually Ahvaz region is part of Fertile Crescent, which begins when the Palestinian plains and ends when it passes by Lebanon, Syria, Iraq».
  • The Historian Carsten Niebuhr from Denmark, which came to the Arabian Peninsula in 1762, says: «I can’t pass by this region and keep silent similar to others, about the most important colonies, which despite being organized outside the boundaries of the Arabian Peninsula, in fact it’s closest to it (Arabian peninsula), I mean the Arab residents of the southern coast of Persia, they are often allied with the Senate neighboring countries, also the different circumstances to indicate that the Arab tribes settled in the Gulf before the Islamic conquests, moreover it has always maintained its independence, It is ridiculous that portray Geographers a part of the Arabian lands under the control of Persian Kings, while those kings were never able to be the masters of the sea coast in their own country, Persians was reluctant to keep this coast belong to the Arabs».
  • The French Jean-Pierre a professor of National Institute for Eastern Languages and Civilizations also wrote in Paris in January 1990 a study in the French Magazine Lomand about the gulf and a nomination of the Arabian Gulf name, then the Iranian embassy protest, and they wrote stuff against him, also Pierre response to them but he was supported by scientific arguments, also he show a maps for Oconnor لوكانور that comes from the end of the 16th century that using the Latin name “Sein Arabique” means (Arabian Gulf), he said : "I have found more than a map and Document at the National Library in Paris proves conclusively the name of the Arabian Gulf, all opposed the viewpoint of Iran."
The writer confirms his point of view about Johen Speight جوهين سبيد map’s that published in 1956 under the name of the Turkish Empire as indicated in the map designation "Bahr Al Qatif," then Arabian Gulf.

Jean-Pierre refute all Iranians fabrication, he also confirms that the name "Persian Gulf" common among newly coordinates Europeans especially Italy, came as a result of the Persian Empire achievements while colonizing and being more strong and bigger, but the Arabism of the Gulf have been mentioned in the writings of the Roman historian Bilby during the first century. المؤرخ الروماني بيلبي

  • The Researcher Dr. Ibrahim Khalaf al-Ubaydi says: " The modern scientific studies confirm that the name of the Persian Gulf doesn't have any link to reality, because it's Arabian since prehistoric, even if Iranian controlled the gulf in a limited period, that is not an evidence to say it is a Persian, Moreover, the Arab tribes are living in both sides of the Gulf since antiquity, the tribes still living in the east coast that occupied by Iran until today, in spite of Iranian policy to Convert this people to the Persian identity to obliterate their national identity"
That is why many of Atlases and European geographical references (such as Guinness Aoniffersales Hachette and most European encyclopedic), since of the second half of the 20th century began, they started to use the historical-geographical balanced expression «Arab-Persian Gulf», also The National Geographic Society that publishes National Geographic Magazine “which is the main reference of geography in the United States”, to develop the name of the Arabian Gulf under the name of the Persian Gulf, on the other hand some of the western Universities and organizations preferred to use the term (The Gulf) without mention of the word Arabian or Persian, Such as, Times Atlas of the World and also the Louvre museum.
2. Political dispute
The French writer Michel Foucher (In French fr:Michel Foucher) has a point of view on the name of the gulf as well, if you take a look at his book “boundaries and borders” what is called in French (Fronts et Frontieres), that the gulf has became the Persian Gulf because of the strong & historical influence of Iran, specially during (time of the Shah) when he found the support from the American strategy that based on supporting him and his army to achieve regional security in the protection of oil, This is confirmed by Nabil Khalifa, a Lebanese writer on strategic affairs, in Dar Al-Hayat newspaper (14/08/05) : «the dispute between Arabs and Iranians simply not on the names, But it is reflects a political conflict and national dimensions and contents of a strategy, the summary is “who have the domination of the Gulf”, the waters, islands, oil, the strategic position, and it wealth».
Viewpoint of Iran
Iran believes that it has the right to control the rest of the Arabian Gulf, and considers its western shores they were colonies belonging to the Kingdom of Persia before Islam, as it considers the "Persian Gulf" is the only name that called for that Gulf, and denies the existence of any other name.
When the National Geographic Society announced for writing the name Arabian Gulf beside Persian Gulf, in it new Atlas, also pointed to the dispute over the three islands between Iran and the United Arab Emirates and considered «The Lesser Tunb and Greater Tunb and Abu Musa occupied by Iran and the United Arab demands for sovereignty», the Persians became mad, then they Indictment the “National Geographic Society” receive of bribes, As well as accusing it of «influence of the Zionist lobby and the oil dollars of certain Arab governments decided to distort historical facts are undeniable» but in fact Israel used the term "Persian Gulf", Iranian officials said that «Zionist plot to separate the ranks of Muslims», whereupon the Iranian government to take action to prevent the National Assembly of Geography from the sale of publications and maps in Iran, As prevent any representative person to enter Iranian territory, also the minister of the Iranian Parliament Haddad Adel called the people in the country to defend Persian Gulf, also He gathered the Iranian opposition with their Various classes on the Persian Gulf, on the other hand the National Assembly of Geography tried to explain the reasons for adding the term "Arabian Gulf" to the Persian Gulf, That there are known marine arm Arabian Gulf, We must differentiate between them and the Arabian Sea that located between the Strait of Hormuz and the Indian Ocean, But the Iranians are not prepared to listen to any justification because the name of the Persian Gulf «become an integral part of national identity Iranian», On June 15, 2006, Iran Prevent The Economist magazine from entering the country simply because they use the term “The Gulf” without mentioning the Persians.
Viewpoint of Arabs
The Arabs believed that the name "Arabian Gulf" historical and old, also two third of the gulf coast are owned by Arab countries while Iran possesses only about one third, Even that third of the coast of Iran is still inhabited by Arab tribes (even though many of them expelled from their lands after the Iranian invasion), whether in the north (Ahvaz Region) or south (to the east coast of Bandar Abbas, while it was under control of Qawasim State (ar: القواسم) until Iran occupied it.
Therefore, that gulf should be named by those people who live around it and they are Arabs (Pure Arabs) in both sides (Population of Arab people in Ahwaz is more than 9 Millions) also its a part of the Arabian Peninsula. Moreover the Arabian Sea disembogues the water into the Arabian Gulf.
In fact, the Persians did not use the sea because they are mountain people, even when the Persians made a fleet on the gulf their people who used to be there wasn’t Persian at all because they are afraid of the sea and that’s well known, moreover, geographically there are serials of mountains and it’s around 2000 kilo meters separating the Persian people in their highland from the sea side, also it’s well known that the relation of the Arabs and the sea is very old, while immigrations before and after Islam also when they go for fishing and diving to get the pearl from the Arabian Gulf.
Therefore, Sykes (سير برسي سايكس) said: The hard policy of the Shah was against the nature of the sea, which made Persians to stay in their place without thinking to go to the sea side to leave their country because Zagros Mountains blocking Ahwaz from and Persia.
see also
Arab'estan (Arabic:عربستان), (Persian:عربستان) is a term for a region that used to be a part of Basra State under the Ottoman Empire and it never existed as an independent state. Arab'estan now, is a part of Iran after they colonized it (as the three island of UAE). After the colony, a lot of Arabs in that area were deported and they weren't allowed to use their mother-tongue Arabic language.
Meaning of Arab'estan
In the Persian language, they call the Arab, “Arab” similar to English. Moreover, estan in their language means land, then during the Safavid Era they control the whole region and the word Arab'estan appeared, which it means Arab-land.
Name Explanation
Arab'estan is actually Ahvaz, the Iranian can’t pronounce the original name of the city in Arabic which is Ahwaz, in the Persian language they pronounce the letter W as V, also they can’t pronounce well the second letter of city name and even in English pronunciation too because (Arabic:الأحواز) the seventh letter of the Arabic language (ح) can’t be found in both languages, usually people replace it with the “H” letter.
The meaning of ‘‘‘Ahwaz’’’ (with the original letter that replaced with “H”) is owning something such as a house or a land, moreover, after the Alexander the Great lost his kingdom, the people divided the kingdom, then the Arabs of this area directly called it Ahwaz (with the original letter that replaced with “H”), because at that day they got back their land.
Mr. Ahmad Kasrawi, the Iranian researcher said that the geological histories of Ahwaz and Iraq lands are the same, also their evenland, because of settlings of Tigris and Euphrates Rivers plus Karun River, all of that settlings made the lands on the both sides of Shatt al-Arab, he is also confirming that there is no relation between Iranian hightland (Hills) and Arab'estan evenland. Moreover, geographically there are serials of mountains and it’s around 2000 kilo meters separating the Persian people in their highland from the sea side, also it’s well known that the relation of the Arabs and the sea is very old, while immigrations before and after Islam also when they go for fishing and diving to get the pearl from the Arabian Gulf.
also see
- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Egyption 4eva (talk • contribs)