Talk:Architect

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Architecture Portal
This article covers subjects of relevance to Architecture. To participate, visit the WikiProject Architecture for more information. The current monthly improvement drive is Johannes Itten.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
Top This article has been rated as top-importance on the assessment scale.


Contents

[edit] Please people!

Please try to keep this talk page coherent and readable by a) using ==Topic== as your question topic, remembering to sign your comments with four tildes and indent with : your answers. If everyone adds a bunch of horizontal rules, <big>-tags and bold formatting here and there this page turns incomprehensible and messy to read. By using the topic wikisyntax your question will be listed in the table of contents automatically. Learn from other people's wikisyntax and try to keep it clear and simple. --piksi (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Salaries: comparisons

In terms of the comparisons listed in this article, I don't think it's realistic to say the median salary of a university professor in the US is 50K. For beginning assistant professors, salaries are closer to 60K in humanities fields---higher in the sciences, law, business, etc. I know this since I was on the job market this year and did extensive research into the subject. Minarees25 (talk) 17:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

If you can find proper sources, go ahead and update the information. In my opinion the whole salary & education section needs an overhaul as we just can't add a subentry for each country (it will eventually need a separate article for both salary and education, it's messy already as it is). Besides, imo the whole article should be clarified and polished, part of it is from an US POV only and part is quite general and hazy. --piksi (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Naval architecture

Excuse me, I am new to this Wikipedia thing and my special interest is Naval Architecture, does that branch properly belong here under Architect? --Bruce Hallman


[edit] New project proposal related to this article

There is a new project proposal that some of you here may be interested in: Wikibuilder - a knowledge base covering the design and construction of the built environment, in its entirety, in all languages. See meta:Proposals for new projects#Wikibuilder and meta:Wikibuilder for more information, and feel free to add your comments to meta:Talk:Wikibuilder —Christiaan - ☎ 09:40, 18 Jan 2005

Not all architects can be classified in those categories... The stub definition still needs some more info to flesh this out into a proper stub so that the list can be moved to List of notable architects. --maveric149
I think the convention is (correct me if I missed something) that the name of the profession (architect, dramatist, etc) is a brief intro and then a list of people in that category, rather than needing a list titled List of notable architects which seems cumbersome.

--David Levinson

That's not the convention, that's just the way things start. One could write a great deal on any profession and the quasi-convention is to have lists named lists. Lists are not encyclopedic and the only place these lists would be linked is from the article on the profession anyway. For example, if someone were reading an article about Frank Lloyd Wright that said he was an architect, the natural thing for that person to expect upon clicking on the link to the article "architect" would be an article explaining what an architect is, not a list. A list does not an article make. Furthermore, lists should not be named as if they were articles -- that is, unless the only thing on that page is a list. Lists are also inherently plural so having them on a properly named (read: singularized) page title is counter-intuitive and confuses newcommers about our naming conventions. Unfortunetely, most of the profession articles are little more than just lists so moving the list (the only real content of the page) at this time doesn't make sense until a proper stub for the profession article can first be made (breaking things up is also another quasi-convention around here). Sorry, I'm always looking ahead about 20 steps in the process, cross-checking those changes with established conventions and working-through exceptions. In this process I often fail to explain my reasoning for doing the first few steps. Cheers! --maveric149, Wednesday, May 29, 2002


[edit] Link suggestions

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Architect article, and they have been placed on this page for your convenience.
Tip: Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add {{User:LinkBot/suggestions/Architect}} to this page. — LinkBot 01:02, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Why not mention the Architect from the Matrix?

"The Architect" from the Matrix movies oughtta be referenced here ... You know, the one that said, "Ergo" and "vis-a-vie" alot? I'm not really that good at writing encyclopedias ...

Because it's not an appropriate topic for this article. - UtherSRG 19:22, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

no no no - I was searching for "Architect Matrix Character" and this page came up. I'm thinking of a bit of a redirect thingy thatz all. Under "See also". i'm new at Wikipedia. I'm from h2g2.

The article you are looking for is here: Architect (Matrix character). -CobaltBlueTony 19:59, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
... and is accessible from Architect page via the link at the top.mikka (t) 20:34, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Professional qualification

User:69.3.117.220 wrote: One aspect of this profession, however, is that architects do not evaluate a building's success or the work of their peers by those qualities which require professional credentials--such as a building's safety or the public's well being. Instead, prestigous awards are based on a building's visual, artistic or cultural qualities. Unlike publications for professionals such as doctors, lawyers and engineers, the official publication of the American Institute of Architects can be easily understood by a bright lay person, as most of the content is simply fashionable imagery.

I have to vehemently disagree with this statement. Are you only reviewing cutesy, pretty periodicals that come off of the newsstand? Or are you a professional with some sort of justification?

I have to think that you are the former, because all of the architects I have worked for have been architectural engineers, bound by their clients to produce a safe structure. Structures' benefits to the well-being of the public is a highly subjective point to try to summarily evaluate, and everyone will have a different feeling about it.

Our society's letigious nature seems to preclude too many grave errors going so unnoticed so as to justify a statement such as yours. If you have a serious problem with the well-being of those affected by structures in your area, then be present at the pulic meetings in which these builders must answer questions like this and others before granting permission for them to erect said structures.

- CobaltBlueTony July 7, 2005 17:02 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Professional Qualification

Thank you CobaltBlueTony for your comments. Unfortunately, you assumed incorrectly.

First, it is my understanding that wikipedia is a collaborative effort. If you are some sort of self-appointed judge, jury and editor-in-chief, please notify those in charge of the wikipedia project so that others don't waste their time and so that the public won't be misled into believing the effort to represent some sort of concensus opinion or broad group effort.

Second, many professions have legitimate controversies within them, and I find your procilivity to edit other people's work because you think you are "right" to be highly offensive and grossly disrespectful. It is typical of the sort of snotty, upper crust, stuffed shirt, blowhard mentality of which this profession needs to divest itself, no?

Third, I am a professional architect, licensed in the litigious USA and have been working in and around the profession for many years, but agree that there may, in fact, be some regional variations in practices, viewpoints and conventions around the world. Since this encyclopedia is intended for public consumption, however, I think it is worth including some perspective that is slightly broader than the way a narrow segment of the profession in one part of the world chooses to narrowly portray, (mis)understand and (mis)represent itself.

Fourth, the "cutesy, pretty periodicals" that I am referring to are available only to industry professionals and are delivered to my mailbox. Architectural Record is the "Official Publication" of the American Institute of Architects, and I, frankly, am embarrassed and disgusted by the gross idiocy and blatant promotional aspect of its content. Nevertheless, I think it accurately reflects the mindset of its professional readers.

Fifth, if you would like to engage in some discussion about appropriate content for this entry, or the way certain thoughts have been organized or presented, I would welcome your input so that we can arrive at content that is mutually agreeable. On the other hand, I could easily challenge some of the basic premises here and find grounds for deletion of your sincere efforts. At this point, I will show some respect, excercise restraint and refrain from so doing.

For example: Architecture isn't really "science", is it? Science uses an investigative methodology to establish facts (or generally accepted principles of nature), usually by research. Name one Pritzker-Prize winning architect that has had a single research paper published in a scientific journal. Have you or any of your employers ever published a research paper in a scientific journal? Name a Law of Architecture, such as "Corbusier's Law" that is actually true and that serves as a foundation for further research, investigation or discussion. Books of architecture ARE cutesy and pretty and are usually sold in the same stores as are books of art, not books of science or engineering.

Sixth, as you point out, all of the "architects" you have worked for are actually engineers, and engineering is a decidedly different profession and has a different emphasis. Personally, I have never worked for an architect that did not shield their practice from litigation by hiring qualified engineers to perform often difficult and complex structural analyses required for seismic safety. Suing an architect in the USA is actually a complicated issue--no matter how bad their work product is--because it can give rise to much more (economically) damaging suits from the construction contractor as a result. As in, "See? The design and the drawings were so bad the client even sued his own consultant--that's why the roof leaked!" So clients tend not to go there, and architects tend to hire "specialists" for absolutely everything that lets them get away with gross breaches of professional ethics. But I digress.

Mr. Tony, I would be most appreciative if you would kindly restore the material that you edited and engage in some constructive dialog as to how the concepts I expressed can be reasonably included in the brief space available, because I believe they factually supportable. If you don't believe they are factually supportable, please provide some parameters or threshold so that other participants may be able to evaluate whether or not my arguments persuasively address your objections and concerns. I would be interested in comments from others as well.

Thank you very much.

Seldomly

afka User:69.3.117.220

afka
  The purpose of an encyclopedia is not to present every single point of view. A main article, such as this is, is not intended to present points of view. In fact, upon reviewing Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, many editors will conclude that your acrimonious, divisive statements do not belong in this article at all. I agree that the AIA definitely has its own agenda, and that there are many architects out there that do not view as their own responsibility many results of their own process. However, there are architects and architectural engineers (licensed as architects as well) who are involved in continuing education, and employ engineers, not as consultants, but as members and even partners of their firms. Your statements are pejorative without sufficient evidence to support them; such information is not meant to be part of a main article. I would suggest collecting your evidence, facts, resources, etcetera, and write an article about this particular topic with the most neutral point of view that you can muster. Or, find an editor who can do this for you if you find it difficult to separate your conclusions about the facts, which obviously come from your personal attachment to the issue. Objectivity is crucial in Wikipedia, and I gather from your words that this might prove to be difficult to you. - CobaltBlueTony 02:37, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
    Tony, I retracted a long-winded rant. Instead, I made some minor revisions to the entry for two purposes: One is to acknowledge the long-established role of the architect in aesthetic decisions; the other to include the fact that architects actually make decisions. I believe this strengthens the aspect of "involvement", acknowledges realities within the profession about aesthetics, and does so in a constructive manner. If you would still like supporting references, I would refer you to the very long discussion in the entry on Architecture, and would welcome any comments about the edit I made, including substance, grammar, and syntax. Thanks for your input. --Seldomly 04:55, 16 July 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Scott Sutherland School

Why is the Scott Sutherland School of Architecture mentioned in the list of Schools of Architecture (I am assuming this is the Scott Sutherland School in Aberdeen, Scotland)? Which notable Architects has it produced? --Cactus.man 20:33, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Schools of Architecture

This section needs to be edited to remove the city links, and replace them with links to the schools located in them, as per what I think was the intent. Berlin's Technical University of Berlin could be done right now, but the other schools do not appear to have articles, at lest in English. Moreover, where are notable schools from other countries? I like the intent of theis section, but it needs real attention. - CobaltBlueTony 04:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it'd be good to develop some sort of dialogue for what constitutes "notable" to prevent budding architecture students everywhere from just listing their own schools. May be someone with way more motivation than I have right now can rewrite the section in terms of the development of architecture as a profession and an academic fields, noting the "hotspots" along the way. (That is, as a text instead of a list.) For example, a discussion on the Ecole des Beaux-Arts in the 1800s (formation of the professional arch. school), MIT in the late 1800s/early 1900s (role, as the first professional school in the U.S., in legitimizing architectural practice as a profession), Harvard & IIT in the 1930s-50s (introduction of Gropius & Mies and Modernism in the academic context to the U.S.), Berkeley & the AA in the 1960s (creation of the 4+2 BA/M.Arch system and Archigram, respectively), Princeton & Cooper Union in the late 1970s-1980s (pedagogical innovation, Education of an Architect), Columbia and Sci-Arc in the 1990s (rise of formalism, implementation and influence of new computer tools, conceptual refocusing), etc., would be much more valuable than a list of every vaguely recognizable arch school in the world. - Gku 20:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Australian professional body

An edit has been made to the Australian section which suggests that Australian architects belong to RIBA, not a local body. I haven't reverted this because it could for all I know be right, but it certainly sounds unlikely - can someone with certain knowledge comment and change if necessary? Barnabypage 15:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ExSqueeze me, why do we care

What archiotects say? Do we all klisten to accountants? Why are Architects the wiosdom and all philospohy of the world. Surely the Real Esatate developers whose money and resources these arhcitects use to foist their views are more important that the architetcs themselves? Chivista 14:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, no need to comment here! JoeConsumer 11/30/06

Great... a heading quoting Wayne's World and a very, very clever statement (that's sarcasm, by the way- hence the two "very"s) . Why if this fellow is not already an architect (or more likely, architecture student) he should consider Law school.

[edit] There's Some Here for Everyone

Since Vitruvius covers instruments of war in his Ten Books on Architecture, naval architecture arguably bears intrinsic value in the art of designing and the science of building.

De facto, to suggest that architectural awards are given based on cultural qualities is to at once give credence to the idea that safety and the public's well-being are intrinsically rooted in their being given. The reigning professional body in the profession, the AIA, states it is the architect's prime responsibility to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the general public. In affixation of construction documents with the architect's seal, he or she is swearing oath that the building will inherently serve these functions. As such, any award given to an architect in recognition of a building for which he or she "stamped drawings" is at once an award given on the merit of the building's safety and concern for the public's well being. Thereby, an award honoring a "safe" building would in effect undermine that which is inherently expected of the architect from the outset.

While I believe the nature of mainstream contemporary architectural periodicals (or any mainstream periodical for that matter) lends itself almost entirely to senseless promotion through advertisement and bias (perhaps even moreso than other professional periodicals) there is some recompense in the fact that these periodicals do for the architectural profession what medical and legal periodicals presumably do for their respective professions: discuss those issues related to the field that will strengthen circulation, that is to say, prevailing mainstream issues of the day. If one's issue is with the material between the covers of such magazines as Architectural Record (which is open to any and all willing to pay the subscription price, not solely those in the profession) perhaps it isn't the magazine that should be indicted but the architect's acceptance of what has been deemed "good" architecture, in other words, the reason contemporary mainstream architecture has achieved such noble status. Furthermore, what sets other professional periodicals apart from those concerning themselves with design is the mere fact that they discuss topics (current events, health or leagal issues, politics, social themes, etc.) that are more imminent. That is to say, health, law, news, and politics shape the ethereal world in which we live in a deeper, more intrinsic, and arguably more important way than the buildings in which we live. In architecture there is no human necessity which extends beyond a roof and four walls. The situation isn't as simple when discussing these other issues.

As a second-year professional and a graduate from a classical architecture school, it seems pretty clear to me how one ought to diagnose and treat the embattled profession.

Blackwell 582 04:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Structural engineering article

This might just be me, but I feel that the article is better served by defining what an architect is, rather than what an architect is not. I removed the paragraph as it seems to belong on an article describing the profession of engineering. beekman 03:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] schools of architecture

why isn't Taliesin (Frank Lloyd Wright's own school) not on the list of "Notable Architecture schools"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.6.143.157 (talk) 14:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] schools of architecture

why isn't Taliesin (Frank Lloyd Wright's own school) not on the list of "Notable Architecture schools"? 64.6.143.157 14:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC) phil@rawfoods.com

Because Taliesin follows a unique course of study that has never caught on elsewhere; while Taliesin is well-known, no other significant schools have emulated their methods. That is the criterion for notability in the context of this list. Acroterion (talk) 15:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] question

overall, how many years of college/interning/etc. would it take to become an architect?

[edit] In the UK

3 years to a degree (RIBA Part I) followed by 12 months in practice (earning, not a freebie), then 2 years diploma (RIBA Part II) followed by a further year in practice and a practice examination (RIBA Part III). (There are variations on this - but 7 years total.) If you train in any other EU or EEA country, you only need the eqivalalent of RIBA Part II to qualify. (Work that one out!) Salisian 20:42, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

UK note - you can get a B.Arch as a first degree or a second degree - depending on which university you study at. And some first degrees are more than 3 years. Ammended accordingly. 172.201.177.77 (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In the US

Since the IP resolves to Texas, I'll add (even though it's been a while):

Four years to an undergraduate degree plus two years for M.Arch., or five years of undergraduate to a B.Arch., plus three years (two in some states) internship with a registered architect, then a licensing exam. Acroterion (talk) 03:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plenty of editing here

Why have there been more than 500 edits to the article this year? I am wondering about all those edits. Why were they necessary?StatesmanVelocicaptor 21:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)Please answer my question.

Speaking from the experience of having the article on my watchlist for the past couple of months, I'd say that at least 220 of them have been vandalism edits by students researching careers; 220 more were reverts of said vandals. That would leave about 60 legitimate edits, which seems reasonable for a high-profile (but mature) article. Acroterion (talk) 22:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I did not examine the edits. Thank you for explaining why the total number of edits is so great.StatesmanVelocicaptor 05:41, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other Nations?

There is good information on qualification requirements in the US, Canada, Singapore, the UK and Australia - can anyone provide qualification information from other nations? Acroterion (talk) 17:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how up to date it is, but try UIA/COAC research. Salisian 15:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
That's awfully useful - I'll see what I can extract. This sort of thing doesn't change very quickly, so I doubt it's too out-of-date, and in any case, it would be a useful link. Acroterion (talk) 16:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
This article obviously concentrates on English-speaking jurisdictions. But a brief (very brief!) overview of others might be interesting- perhaps some editors can translate from other language Wikipedias?Dionix (talk) 00:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


What about "design babes"? This article makes no mention of the usually hot chicks that work in the profession.

Architecture has a fairly low number of women working in it, so would be interested in any evidence to support this... 172.201.177.77 (talk) 23:27, 29 December 2007 (UTC)