Talk:Arbeit macht frei

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I think that Rudolf Höss wrote this slogan who had himself been detained in prison and was (initially) sincere about it: he found the work that he did liberating when he was detained. Andries 10:41, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Note: In the concentration camps:

ARBEIT MACHT TODT.

ARBEIT MACHT TODT.

ARBEIT MACHT TODT.

ARBEIT MACHT TODT.

Sorry, couldn't help it.... Work certainly killed in the camps.... — Rickyrab | Talk 03:33, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hess wasn't known for being the most mentally stable individual. Remember his little plane crash in Britain? Perhaps he was simply so unhinged he didn't treat the plight of the Jews with the seriousness it deserved. Kade 04:43, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Origin of the term

A discussion about origin of the term can be found on soc.history.war-world-war-ii at [1]. (Especially Andrew Clark is highly knowledgeable expert) Article was updated with some information shown there. Pavel Vozenilek 20:16, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


What most people do not know is that it originates from Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit and its master-slave dialectic. The slave frees himself through work, thus the modern world is born.It was only later perverted by the Nazis--Arado 12:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor vandalism

152.163.100.8 has been changing dates hundreds of years backwards and forwards, changing locations and changing or misspelling words. I've removed the damage (as 82.44.102.209 sinceI hadn't logged in at that point), but keep an eye out. --Cruci 12:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Upside Down B

I know that in the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C., they make a point of mentioning that the "b" in the Auschwitz sign is written upside down (i.e. in the font used, the top loop of the B should be smaller, but in actuallity it was larger). It is a noticeable feature of the sign once pointed out, and the explanation given is that when the sign was cast, the B was purposely made upside down to sort of nix the notion that "work makes free"...sort of like crossing your fingers when you promise something. (deathcamps.org/websites/pic/big1401%20KL%20Auschwitz%20Work%20makes%20free%20Arbeit%20macht%20frei%201945.jpg) here is an image of the sign, it's pretty easy to pick out the "upside down b." This always sticks in my mind when i think of the gate, but i'm not sure if its really all that notable, or even where to put it on in the article. Thoughts? jfg284 you were saying? 16:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

It looks to me like it is just a result of how the sign was made, by making the 'B' upside down it uses the same upper and side part as 'P' and 'R' --Lehk 19:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
In the German Wikipedia you can read the following: Former prisoners of Auschwitz report that the inverted "B" is a secret protest. The prisoner Jan Liwacz was a metal worker who was forced to work for the SS and also to create this sign. So the "B" was his secret protest.--Heinecke (talk) 20:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shouldn't the Auschwitz sign appear here?

It's the first image that pops into my mind when I hear this phrase, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's the most obvious image for this article, I see no reason for it to be kept out.

[edit] John 8:32?

"It is probably derived from John 8:32 in The Bible, "the truth shall make you free""

IMO there's a problem with this etymology - it works far better in English than in German. In the Luther Bibel, John 8:32 reads "und ihr werdet die Wahrheit erkennen, und die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen." "Macht" and "frei" are there, admittedly, but in a different order and grammar, and they're such common words that the slogan could easily have come from a lot of less well-known places, or just been made up without any clear thought given to the passage in the Bible.

Can we get a citation for the John 8:32 claim? I did a quick Google, and while other people have considered the same thing, none look particularly authoritative. A search in German on www.google.de turned up absolutely nothing (3 non-related hits [2]), which I find more telling. On the surface, this etymology is an English invention. --Sam Blanning(talk) 23:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't seem valid to assume 'truth' and 'work' can be treated as synonyms, does it? Do any respectable scholars say they are synonymous concepts? No, I didn't think so. --Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 23:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure where you're going with that. Do you believe that 'Arbeit macht frei' probably wasn't derived from John 8:32, or that it was? --Sam Blanning(talk) 23:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I think it has no connection with John 8 - the context doesn't relate to work at all. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I don't know where it does come from, but I can't see how you could interpret John 8:13 as the source of this slogan. --Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 00:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I think it arguably works in English - "the truth shall set you free" is the Bible passage, and "work shall set you free" is a translation occasionally used of "arbeit macht frei", and only the noun differs (whereas in German the word order and inflection of machen changes). I think that's why someone wrote it as such, but I don't think any Germans have ever noticed. --Sam Blanning(talk) 00:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
It's most likely not based on the bible. AFAIK it was a common phrase, just like "Jedem das seine" ("To each his own") until the nazis picked it up. The latter is still in use, though mostly sarcastically, outside the nazi context, though. — Ashmodai (talk · contribs) 16:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


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Incredible today !!!

http://www.krisis.org/feierabend_f-schandl_verwesen-der-arbeit.html http://www.sfs-dortmund.de/aktuell/sfsfor1.html Wer nicht arbeitet, soll auch nicht essen, sagt man. Ora et labora. Arbeit macht frei. Arbeit, sagt man, macht erst das Leben süß« (Franzobel 1995, S. 27).

Franzobel (1995): Die Krautflut. Erzählung, Frankfurt/Main

Frydman Charles... Son of matricule 42030 (Auschwitz)

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[edit] Pronunciation

I think that adding the pronunciation of the sentence in IPA would be appropriate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.227.159.13 (talk) 03:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

An audio recording, anyone? Thanks.Pristine 09:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Nazi Slogan with "Arbeit" in it Discovered

"Chret die Arbeit" (I think), see [3], I don't know what "chret" means and the Altavista translator is also clueless. 204.52.215.107 05:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

That's an E, not a C :) Making it "Ehret die Arbeit", "honor (the) work". --Brazzy 10:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The word "seems" is not factual

The article states and quatoes reference 1 saying that Hoss "seems not to have intended it as a mockery, nor even to have intended it literally, as a false promise that those who worked to exhaustion would eventually be released, but rather as a kind of mystical declaration that self-sacrifice in the form of endless labor does in itself bring a kind of spiritual freedom."

This is not factual. It is an assumption on the part of the writer. The fact was there at the front gate and anyone who saw it would have been given a false sense of hope. To assume otherwise is self-delusion, and both the reference and that portion of the wiki should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.136.170.53 (talk) 01:47, 14 January 2008 (UTC)