Talk:Apsley Cherry-Garrard

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Proposing a rewrite/rationalisation. The events of the expedition probably belong in the wiki article 'Terra Nova Expedition 1911-1913', which reduces the focus of the 'Cherry-Garrard' (Cherry) article down somewhat to (a) allow some 'characterisation', (b) detail his contribution to the expedition, and (c) detail his life 'before and after'. Cherry's part in the 'debate' on the deaths of Scott, Bowers, Wilson, Oates and Evans belongs here (particularly his relations with other's taking positions in that debate), but the views themselves - all of the arguments - belong in a section within the 'Terra Nova Expedition' article.

Points already noted here, or which might benefit from a little research include

  • Cherry was the youngest (?) member of the expedition
  • He was short sighted
  • Effectively he 'purchased' his entrance to the expedition
  • He was however also 'sponsored' by Wilson
  • His relationship with Wilson was very strong, his relationship with Scott was possibly distant

Cherry's position in the debate on why Scott and his companions died is central. Cherry was involved in laying the one ton depot (that Scott barely failed to reach), and took part in the search, and was with the party (led by Atkinson) that found Scott, Wilson and Bowers. He was also (in the absence of Scott and Wilson) the expedition's chronicler. Beyond this, he was deeply affected by the death of Wilson, and questioned whether Scott had taken all possible steps to safeguard the lives of the South Pole team. As the deification of Scott by the British establishment proceeded Cherry took up a very controversial position that Scott was simply a man; both flawed and great - and most particularly, just one of three they found that day in the tent buried in the snow.

Cherry's health following the expedition warrants attention, as does the question of whether he was excused military service in World War I. It might be possible to find references to studies that might suggest that Cherry was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. The history of his writing deserves attention as well.

Finally it might be possible to wrap up with the 'significance' of Aspley Cherry-Garrard to us today. His writing has been influential, both stylistically and in inspiring others to (in his words) 'go out and explore', and one might add, to go inside ourselves and explore questions of courage, worth and dignity. Tban 03:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I added citations from C-G's book which backs up the first 4 of the 5 points above, plus some other information on how he first heard about / was inspired to join the expedition. I may edit further to reduce detail on the actual "worst journey", since this is detailed (properly I think) on the Terra Nova Expedition page. (I would transfer any details not present on the Terra Nova page.) I think this page should mainly be biographical in nature, not detail expeditions which are the sole subject of another page. Opinions before I do that anyone? Zatoichi26 15:42, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


I don't know if you are still proposing to amend the article. If you are, may I suggest the following, in addition to consideration of the points raised above:-

  • Expand the introduction from one line, to form a brief summary of the main areas discussed in the article
  • Correct one or two minor errors of fact, e.g. CG first met Wilson at Cortachy in autumn 1908 not 1907. You could also explain that Smith was CG's cousin, and that Cortachy is in Co. Angus, Scotland. Also, what is the source of the statement that CG was rejected twice before his acceptance?
  • My main problem with the present article is that it is over-dependent on Cherry-Garrard's own account. Without in any way disparaging the book as a classic of travel literature, it should not be the only source for a supposedly neutral biographical article. You should draw from a much wider range of material: for instance, there is Sara Wheeler's biography, to which you refer but don't cite. There is Scott's Last Expedition, especially Vol II which has vital source information about CG's role in the expedition. There are the numerous recent works of polar chroniclers, all of whom have things to say about CG.
  • there is an existing Wiki article on the book. I don't think this is justified. I think you should absorb any points of relevance from that article into the "book" section of this one.

I hope you do decide to proceed as the subject is very worthwhileBrianboulton (talk) 16:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GBS, IBS, Penguin's Eggs, Problems with MNH, and controversy over archives

I think there's lots to do here. There's no mention of his later marriage to the much younger nurse, Anela, nor his management of the manor estate and the reason for his name changing from Cherry to Cherry-Gerrard after the expedition, nor his wealth and nobility, nor the need to purchase his own paper during the war years to publish his book, nor the controversy over his resignation from the committee and publication of his memoirs sans sanction, nor his dissatisfaction with Evans of the Breach as 2nd in command of the expedition and subsequent membership on the archives committee. Anyone else want to help out in expanding this or have further suggestions? Shamanchill (talk) 07:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)