Talk:Aotearoa

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[edit] Pronunciation help

For those out of earshot, a pronunciation guide to "Aotearoa" would really help. Cheers, -Willmcw 21:44, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

I'll leave that to people who can handle the phonetic code characters better than I can, but if you use the vowel sounds and stresses from "Now say a law", you won't be very far from it. Mind you, that doesn't stop a lot of NZers from mangling it as "Ay-oh-tay-a-rower"! Grutness|hello? 02:43, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've added an IPA guide and audio file (help·info) as per your request. -- FP 09:26, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)
Awesome- wikithanks! -Willmcw 10:02, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

whoever that is saying it, they're pronouncing it wrong. Kripto 04:49, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The IPA is almost certainly wrong too :-( or at least, it's not what's being pronounced in the audio file. Leon 11:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

I just wanted to point out that the first two theories of the derivation of the word involve the mountains of the southern island, but then the article goes on to say that the word was orignally used ony for the north island. That seems to invalidate those two theories then, doesnt it? Also, the third theory doesnt give any indication of how twilight relates to the word at all. Can anyone clarify? --Someones life 17:16, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

The first two explanations, while they referred specifically to the South Island, could equally well have referred to mountains in thw North Island.I've expanded the explanations a little, in an attempt to clarify things. As to twilight, due to the spin of the earth and the tilt of its axis there is very little twilight in the tropics. Visitors to equatorial latitudes from temperate regions are often surprised by just how uickly the sky goes from light to dark. The opposite is true with travellers from tropical zones visiting higher latitudes - twilight seems very long, and in summer the length of daylight seems abnormal (the extreme case, of course, is the "midnight sun" of Scandinavia, northern Canada and the Antarctic). "Aotearoa" in this case, would translate directly as "long white cloud", but indirectly as "long light sky". Grutness...wha? 06:56, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I seem to remember hearing recently that the whole Aotearoa "oral tradition" thing was invented in the 19th century and that Maori never had a particular name for the whole country before then. I think I heard it on National Radio, in which case it's probably from Michael King's History of NZ - I have a copy somewhere so I'll check sometime in the next few days.
Confirmed - I have made a small edit but I think the whole article needs a bit of a tidy-up. I'll do some work on it when time permits. Reference for the changes I have just made is Michael King, chapter 3, I don't have time to figure out how to do footnotes right now. --LesleyW 02:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Western cultures tend to have a fascination with analysing the meaning of words and names that genuinely oral cultures don't share. Along comes The Reverend Taylor or Sir George Grey or Elsdon Best or whoever and quizzes a poor chief as to the meaning of some obscure name. The chief doesn't know the answer - who should care about such stuff - but doesn't want to admit ignorance to the stranger. He invents some likely story and the pesky researcher goes away satisfied. The researcher writes up his story and publishes a book, and years later the chief's grandchildren read it. 'Well', they say, 'fancy that, so that's what that word means - it all makes sense - its so deep and meaningful'. Then it's fact AND tradition. That's what you call tradition feedback, and probably explains most of the explanations given in the article Kahuroa 09:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Re these popular explanations - mostly they are highly dubious, and based on the post-20th century meaning of Aotearoa as referring to the whole country. The twilight thing is South Island based, and Aotearoa referred to the North Island. Māori did not come from equatorial latitudes but probably from latitudes around 20 deg South ie, Rarotonga or the Society Islands. They did not go to the South Island first, where twilight is particularly long, but most probably to Northland around latitude 34/35, technically subtropical latitudes. Twilight in the northern North Island is nothing like that of the South Island. And they did not step out of a jet, but out of a waka that took weeks to arrive, and so the twilight increase would have been gradual over the course of the journey, ie, they would not have been suddenly surprised at the change. (Even presuming they arrived in summer when twilight is long). The snowy mountains thing is patently a South Island explanation too. Hard to imagine the N.I. mountains leading to the name, as they are often/usually bare of snow or difficult to see from the north. Kahuroa 19:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger with New Zealand

Following other examples where an alternative name exists for a geo-political entity (such as Kanaky, Timor Lorosae, Kampuchea and Hellenic Republic), I propose that this article also be integrated into the state it refers to. Some country pages have a separate section about the usage and origin of their name(s), whether official or informal. --Big Adamsky 09:57, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I've commented in more depth elsewhere, but, as a glance at this page will tell you, the concepts are not identical. This page was deliberately separated from the New Zealand one for just that reason. I strongly oppose the idea of any merger. Grutness...wha? 14:06, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
And so do I. This article clearly stands on its own merits. Stongly oppose a merger. Moriori 19:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Oppose - it may be appropriate in those other cases to do the merge/redirect thing, but that does not automatically mean it is a good reason to do it here. --LesleyW 10:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

The IPA notation is correct, but the audio file at the top of the page sounds a bit like 'ow-tee-a-row-uh' to me, especially the last 'o' which should rhyme with 'paw'. It would be nice to have the Māori pronunciation. Kahuroa 21:50, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation/Spider

I've taken out the link at the top of the page to a spider article that hasn't even been written yet (!) and set up an Aotearoa (disambiguation) page Kahuroa 23:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC)