Talk:Antinous

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Contents 1 Antinous Mandragone? 2 Disambiguation 3 Uncited section about modern 'worship' 4 Images 4.1 Gallery 5 Cinderello 6 Hadrian's Lover

[edit] Antinous Mandragone?

I have deleted the image captioned "Antinous Mandragone" for several reasons. Firstly, although it has some resemblance to Antinous images, the hair arrangement makes it fairly clear that it's a woman. Antinous may have been a catamite, but he wasn't a drag queen. Secondly, a Google image search for "Antinous Mandragone" does not turn up any independent verification of this work, nor does a search for "Antinous Louvre". A general search for "Antinous" turns up hundreds of images, but not this one. Thirdly, if this an Antinous bust in the Louvre, its striking qualities should make it at least as well known as the other Antinous busts in the Louvre, in the Vatican and at Delphi - and it isn't at all well known. Fourthly, I went through the Louvre looking specifically for Antinous images, and I certainly didn't see this one. Of course I may have missed it - it's a big place - and I may be quite wrong. But I'd like to see some sources for the assertion that this is Antinous. Adam 00:10, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm the author of this photograph. This bust stands in the new « salle du Manège » which was opened some months ago (immediately on your right when you come out of the escalator). This hall is dedicated to French copies or casts of Greek antiquities.

The hair arrangement doesn't strike me as particularly feminine, at least not more than other male statues. As for the caption, it's a mispelling. It's Mondragone, from the Mondragone Villa in Italy, near Frascati. 30 hits in Google with "antinous mondragone". Jastrow 00:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

The bit about the mythological character should be merged with Antinous son of Eupeithes. --LakeHMM 08:39, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the irrelevant material to Antinous son of Eupeithes. Will try and do the merging later. 62.31.128.13 03:59, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Did Hadrian and Antinous met in 123 or 124 for the first time?

[edit] Uncited section about modern 'worship'

I removed the following, as it is uncited and seems quite doubtful.

Today, many young Pagans and Wiccans (especially males with homosexual orientation) have revived the worship of Antinous. In Cyberspace, several virtual temples have been dedicated to him. In Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Houston, he is the main deity for several covens.

Please feel free to discuss and cite. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 12:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your action. Adam 21:34, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there are many pagans (of many ages) who are actively worshipping Antinous, but they are not Wiccans. You'll note the websites of several of these in the links which have been added.-Alfrecht 07:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

We're using more space for images here than text. Rendering lots of media on a subject is the purvue of Wikimedia Commons. I think that four images here has passed "distracting" and well into "cluttered". Jkelly 01:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - but I think one image doesn't really describe the depth and breadth to which Antinous has been captured in various cultures. Perhaps something a bit more less drastic (2-3 images)? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 01:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't recommend going with more than two until we expand the text. I have a strong preference for Image:Antinous_Mandragone_profil.jpg (due to its being featured on Commons), and a mild preference Image:Antinous-osiris.JPG (to show that "depth and breadth" you mention). Thoughts? Jkelly 01:46, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I also have a liking for the photo I took, and consider it to be largely redundant with the bottom bust. So I'd prefer 3 images. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 01:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I have again deleted the Mondragone Antinous, since it appears from the above discussion, and other opinions I have been given, that it is a modern work. Adam 02:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Adam, have you read my answer to you? If you can read French, please read the Louvre cartel, which clearly states "ca. 130 CE". This bust is mentioned as an antique work in Winckelmann's work as well as in Haskell & Penny's Taste and the Antique. Please clarify which opinions state otherwise. Jastrow 08:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery

I think that having a twelve-thumbnail gallery here is excessive. That's what Wikimedia Commons is for. Jkelly 20:01, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree... why do we need so many images for such an unimportant person?

• I don't - while we sadly lack data to elaborate the text, he happens to be an important theme in art, precisely because he's believed to be the most beautifull male mortal in all Antiquity, a 'real life adonis', and his life determined by this reputation : a subject simply crying out for images if ever there was one Fastifex 03:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Antinous unimportant? Are you kidding, he is possibly the most known face from antiquity.

I have removed a picture: Image:NAMA Antinoüs.jpg|From Patras, from Hadrian's Villa in Tivoli, because it cannot be both from Patras and from Tivoli, and the tag in the picture itself says the bust is from the NAM in Athens. --5telios 11:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't blank images or blank text: it puts you in bad company. I have returned the image, and corrected the caption, something which 5telios might easily have done. --Wetman 12:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I apologise for the blanking - unaware that it is frowned upon. I might easily have repaired the caption, had my knowledge of the statue's provenance been better. As it is I saw a picture labelled with two mutually exclusive labels, something any visitor to the page, regardless of specialist knowledge would find strange. --5telios 13:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cinderello

"Another version has it that Hadrian had the empire searched for the most beautiful youth, and chose Antinous." Oh. Doesn't even the most gullible Wiukipedian recognize the Cinderella motif in this? Claptrap. --Wetman 22:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hadrian's Lover

I agree with the above poster, in addition, it is not proven that they were lovers. It has been suggested that because of the frosty relations between Hadrian and his wife that Hadrian saw Antinous as a son he never had. All views and opinions should be presented, and the reader should be allowed to draw his own conclussions. In any case, personal relations should not figure into the introductory paragraph in my opinion, especially since it is a debated subject.MarcusAntoninus 20:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Antinoüs was a slave. If a Roman wanted to have an adopted son, he could only adopt a free man. It is obvious that the relation between Hadrian and Antinoüs was erotic. That's a silly joke to say that he was not Adrian's lover.

He wouldn't have been a slave, being younger and of a lower social position he would have been the Eromenos of the two and Hadrian the Erastes, but that doesn’t make him a slave. Their relationship would have followed the standard Greek pederasty tradition, likeiest the Athenian version to be specific, meaning the relationship would have been mutually consensual. Although if the emperor makes a pass at you its probably not a good idea to shoot him down.