Talk:Anti-Nazi League

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[edit] Incivility

Given in the 1970s ANL affiliates included the Young Conservatives I fail to see how it was a far left outfit and one of the sponsors of the more recent revival was Peter Hain - now a member of the Cabinet, it is trite to call it an SWP front. The tone of this article suggests it is just a piece of puffery for the Nazi BNP - btw that is waht these parties are, not simply neo-facist, but NAZI - admirers of Hitler, would-be race war machines. In short scum.

Sure the SWP has a heavy and probably (knowing them), manipulative, presence - and believe you me I am no supporter of the SWP. But simply dismissing it all as a front is the line of the Nazi BNP.

The fact you use silly childish terms like "nazi" and "scum" to describe the BNP shows that you have little interest in being NPOV. Everything in this article is factually correct - the ANL's leaders all are top SWP personel, whether you like it or not! Btw. Peter Hain - there's an iteresting character; a former member of the communist party, who spread broken glass on a rugby pitch with the express purpose of injuring innocent sportmen. Not far left, you say? 80.255 21:12, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)

This is a talk page, 80, there's no requirement for NPOV here. The BNP are in fact Nazi scum. Bite me. :-P Evercat 21:16, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I know there's no requirement on a talk page, but use of such terms suggests that the above anon is not likely to go out of his way to be NPOV if he were to edit the article. As it is, however, he simply seems to be going around alleging "nazi apologism" on talk pages and doing nothing else. NPOV notwithstanding, "scum" is hardly an encyclopeadic term! 80.255 21:37, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Scum is a rude personal attack, and making obnoxious statements about any political group, be they nazi's or BNP or whathaveyou is not tolerated under the wikipedia:no personal attacks, wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:Wikiquette policies. Sam [Spade] 22:27, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)


"The BNP are in fact Nazi scum." And this is based on what evidence? I am neither a supporter of the BNP nor the Loony-Left, but I have done my homework and read the BNP manifesto, literature and website and fail to find anything remotely linked to Hitler or the NSDAP. The more I read the more it makes sense. Calling your political opponents "scum" and using emotive language like "Nazi" just proves to all that you are intellectually flawed like the rest of the ANL/SWP. If a Leftist can't win an argument - he resorts to personal insults and violence. It is people like you who are instrumental in bringing the UK to its knees. It also appears you are in need of a good standard of education: "...The tone of this article suggests it is just a piece of puffery for the Nazi BNP - btw that is waht these parties are, not simply neo-facist, but NAZI - admirers of Hitler, would-be race war machines. In short scum..." They have an elected councillor who dislikes Nazis intensely - a Jew of all people. —This unsigned comment was added by 88.108.53.41 (talk • contribs) 21 March 2006.

[edit] Removing misleading comment

I have removed following statement about Julie Waterson the from the article:

In May 2001 she wrote in the SWP's newpaper, the Socialist Worker:
"We [the ANL] are not turning our back on the Marxist tradition that we stand for."

That sentence was actually a reference to the SWP not the ANL. The article has nothing to do with the ANL but its about the merger between the SWP and the Scottish Socialist Party.[1]. Saul Taylor 06:29, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I have undone the change made here [2] since they were blatantly POV and were simply trying to display the ANL in a good light by removing NPOV facts and changing other NPOV facts. 129.234.4.10 00:29, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate article

The Anti-Nazi League (or ANL) is a UK coalition against neo-Fascist organizations. It developed in the 1970s as an attempt to counter the National Front, and then again in the 1990s against various other Right-wing organisations whose view ran contrary to the ANL's. In the 2000s, its main target has been the British National Party. The ANL's open policy is that any person or group with whom they disagree (and usually inacurately apply the label "nazi", playing on anti-german sentiment) should be banned by law and prevented from excersising free speech. In this way the ANL is openly anti-democratic.

In response to this obviously threat to deomcracy, the Pro-Democracy League has been established to combat the ANL, holding counter-demonstrations in favour of democracy when ANL members are waving their "Ban the BNP" yellow lollipop-shaped placards.

The ANL distributes (often allegedly illegal) propaganda and holds campaigns and (often violent) protests against these groups, and sometimes attempts to physically prevent their meetings and marches, resulting in arrest of ANL activists by police. Many times threats of violence from the ANL has led to the police force banning protests - both by the ANL and its opponents.

The ANL was linked to Rock Against Racism in the 1970s, had a huge carnival in London in the 1990s, and works with Love Music Hate Racism in the 2000s in an attempt to portray its far-left views as mainstream, and attract more support from young people.

The ANL has been acurately described by some of its critics as a front organization for the Socialist Workers Party, an extreme left-wing organisation which idolises Trotsky and the political organisation of Stalin's Russia.

Much success has been enjoyed by the ANL attempts to infiltrate and affiliate with many Trade Unions, many of which have high officials with far-left sympathies.

Well, that's all well and good, but it's clearly not NPOV. Firstly, because you come out and say that you believe they are liars when you write The ANL's open policy is that any person or group with whom they disagree (and usually inacurately apply the label "nazi", playing on anti-german sentiment). You go on to say that it has been acurately described by some of its critics as a front organization for the Socialist Workers Party, thereby stating that you side with "its critics" - which is, of course, a weasel term. Also, learn to spell. But seriously - what is this alternative article meant to achieve? Simply slanting it differently? If you have other facts to include, please do share. -- Yitzhak 22:19, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Actually I just put it here to help me in merging info from it (which I NPOVed pretty well, I'd say). Sam [Spade] 22:28, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Oh, ok. The wording was still a little biased, and I did some research... I couldn't find any specific instance of the ANL advocating party bans (maybe I didn't look hard enough), but it certainly doesn't seem to be their official position at the moment, at any rate. I could only find one instance of a counter-demonstration on the part of the PDL, but oh well. Interesting enough, their website are clearly built in the same way... perhaps a joke? -- Yitzhak 23:39, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The common ANL 'lollipop' placards have the text "Shut down the BNP" written on them. If that isn't 'advocating party bans' then I don't know what is! Here's a photograph [3]; A BBC search reveals plenty more examples. 80.255 17:08, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Socialist Workers Party, an extreme left-wing organisation which idolises Trotsky and the political organisation of Stalin's Russia.

Now that would be a difficult achievement! AndyL 06:26, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I removed anon's edit "Former ANL members of note include mass murderer Dennis Nilsen.", for several reasons : (1) no source is given, and the accuracy has been disputed - see [4] (2) the inclusiong under the heading "The ANL Leadership" suggests that he was in a leading position. IS this true? (3) It's not clear how this is information is relevant to the ANL. If all three points can be answered to satisfaction, please put it back. - pir 11:57, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Date Discrepancy

The article currently says the Anti-Nazi League was formed in 1977. However according to Rock Against Racism it was active in 1976. There is a date discrepancy here. Can someone look into it? -- FirstPrinciples 04:59, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

I'm reverting to the following:

The ANL also calls for the legal political parties that it opposes to be "shut down"--which has led critics to accuse it of being opposed to freedom of political expression.

I provided a link to ANL placards with "Shut down the BNP" on them above. This isn't disputed.

In response to this, critics point out that 'democracy' expressly means freedom of choice for voters of all strands of political opinion, and, whereas banning pornography does not affect a democratic political system, banning political parties does.

I don't see anything POV about this.

[edit] revert 18 June

I've reverted the article so that material relating to the death of Blair Peach and the political history of Peter hain acord with the facts. For the record the account I have given of Blair Peachs death are in accordance with the results of the inquiry carried out after his death. This can be verified in the press, both mainstream and leftist, of the day. Similarly I've again removed the assertion that Peter Hain was a member of the Communist party.. As the wiki entry on hain points out and as all his books and inumerable press articles on him have stated he was a leading figure in the Young Liberals. I note that only nazis and fascists accuse Hain - a man i have no fondness for - of being a member of the CP.

Jock Haston

[edit] Assumptions about critics

The following was written in the section headed Opposition

Critics claim that ANL's "No Platform for Nazis" policy and their call for undesirable parties to be "shut down" deny the democratic rights to freedom of speech and freedom of association, they also deny that their groups are fascist.

My problem is that this statement assumes that critics of the ANL are all from fascist groups. It should say something like 'far-right critics deny that their groups are fascist'. Instead the whole statement starts by talking about critics in general and ends by saying that this same group of people deny fascism.

What many people dont understand is that the ANL have critics even from with the liberal, socialist, left-wing, multicultural and anti-racist community. Some fierce opponents of the BNP still support the BNPs legal right to exist and they will say that the ANLs call to ban the BNP is counterproductive by making the far-right look like victims of intolerant lefties.

What I think i will do is change this section from Opposition to Criticism because there are some on the same side as the ANL (anti-racist) which disagree with with ANL tactics and ideology.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.31.62.229 (talk • contribs).

I agree this sentance is wrongly worded and I've changed this and the section name though. This whole section needs a rewrite though - its a very ping pong set of arguments.--NHSavage 22:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I've had a bash a reworking the whole section - and renamed it challenges, as the first of the two, the BNP's attempts at "moderation", isn't really a criticism or opposition of the ANL. I'm going to try and look out some more citations, as the whole section is a bit light on them! Mtpt 16:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blair Peach

Not a merger request at this stage, but this article's content on the subject pretty well duplicates the seperate Blair Peach article. It might be better to just link to that article? Mtpt 16:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oops

Made some adjustments to Criticisms section and forgot to uncheck "minor edit". --BobFromBrockley 15:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blair Peach Primary School

Hi. I cannot figure out how to add citations, however, I have a link to this school's entry on the DFES website. If this is okay, can someone please add it to the article. Thanks

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/cgi-bin/performancetables/dfepx1_05.pl?No=p145&Type=p&Mode=Z&Reg=7&School=3072162

Done.--JK the unwise 11:39, 1 June 2007 (UTC)