Talk:Anorexia mirabilis

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[edit] Wilgefortis

I've removed the following:

It has been suggested that the miraculous beard of Wilgefortis was in fact Lanugo, as result of starvation.^[1]

It implies that Wilgefortis was a real person, in contrast to the Wilgefortis article and its references. Also, the reference here is not reliable: Everything2 is just another user-submitted content work like Wikipedia, with the same (if not more) problems with reliability. -kotra (talk) 16:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I notice you moved a portion of my entry on Anorexia Mirabilis to the discussion page due to an unreliable/ possibly unreliable source, so I have a new, much better one, and am hoping you will find this acceptable and re-enter the passage and new reference (I'm not sure of wiki ettequite, is this the right thing to do?) Anyhow, here is the new reference link: http://www.philipresheph.com/a424/study/lacey.doc

Also, here's some alternate sources if that one's not all right:

http://eprints.utas.edu.au/287/15/Chapter_14__Eating_disorders2.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=eX3xL91hBPIC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=wilgefortis+lanugo&source=web&ots=Br7D4vHkkF&sig=hfEeUhtce5YA0q0PzJTUJOEDlAE&hl=en

http://www.psychology.uiowa.edu/labs/keellab/Journal%20Articles%20(PDF)/Are%20Eaing%20Disorders%20Culture%20Bound%20Syndromes.pdf

http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521613125&ss=exc

THANKS!

Esmeralda.rupp (talk) 21:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

http://www.philipresheph.com/a424/study/lacey.doc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Esmeralda.rupp (talk • contribs) 21:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up here. I've reviewed all these sources.

1. Concerning the first source you give (lacey.doc), I'm not sure if it actually makes a direct connection between lanugo and Wilgefortis. It does mention lanugo, but it doesn't explicitly claim that Wilgefortis (if there was an actual Wilgefortis, which it says may not be the case: "Our knowledge of the early life of Wilgefortis is sketchy. This would not be surprising if the legend becomes interwoven with clinical material from different cases and sources.") had it. The most it says about lanugo is just a cursory description of it:

The endocrine disorder is secondary to weight loss and manifest as amenorrhoea, but in some patients the hormonal imbalance is such that hair develops on the upper lip and chin. In addition, lanugo hair grows on the back, arms, legs, and side of the face. Individual variation is considerable, but the more emaciated the patient the more the hair grows. The downy hair is believed to help temperature regulation in the absence of adequate subcutaneous fat tissue. Head hair is apt to be thin and may sometimes fall out, tending, therefore, to further emphasise any other extraneous facial hair.

2. The second source (Download of Psychiatry by Saxby Pridmore) brings up a criticism of the lanugo argument. It says:

To avoid the marriage St Wilgefortis prayed to God to be made unattractive. She became ascetic and ate little. She developed body hair and grew a beard. The King of Sicily withdrew his suit. Her father was so outraged he had her crucified. Lanugo, (fine baby-like hair) is frequently observed on the face and limbs of patients with anorexia nervosa– but, not a beard.

3. The third source (Understanding Eating Disorders: Anorexia Nervosa, Bulimia Nervosa, and Obesity) is direct and asserts the lanugo-Wilgefortis connection, but has questionable validity. It says:

St. Wilgefortis was suspected to be anorexic. Her hirsuitism was likely the result of lanugo (long, fine, dark hair) found in chronic patients with anorexia nervosa.

However, this book doesn't seem to explore the lanugo-Wilgefortis connection more than just that one sentence. More worryingly, though, is its description of lanugo as "dark". Every description and photo of lanugo I've seen describes or shows it as "white". So it may be a book that would probably otherwise qualify as a reliable source, but I would really question its accuracy on the subject of lanugo.

4. The fourth source (Are Eating Disorders Culture-Bound Syndromes? by Keel & Klump) actually references the first source (lacey.doc):

Purported cases of AN [Anorexia Nervosa] prior to the twelfth century include St. Wilgefortis, who allegedly engaged in self-starvation resulting in emaciation and lanugo (fine, downy body hair usually restricted to the fetal stage of development) sometime between A.D. 700 to 1000 (Lacey, 1982).

...and then describes how that claim is controversial:

For example, Bynum (1987) characterized the description of St. Wilgefortis as having AN as a “bizarre communication to a British medical journal” (p. 194). Indeed, the story of St. Wilgefortis recounted by Lacey is open to numerous interpretations, among which AN is one possibility. Moreover, prior to the twelfth century, details become sparse, increasing the difficulty of interpreting these potential cases.

I thought that was interesting, but back on the topic of lanugo, it relies on the first source (lacey.pdf) for the connection between lanugo and Wilgefortis, but the first source doesn't explicitly make that claim anyway. Both sources seem more concerned with Anorexia Nervosa than lanugo, and barely mention lanugo in both cases.

5. The fifth source (Eating Disorders in Children and Adolescents) relies on the fourth source for its lanugo claim, which relies on the first source for its lanugo claim:

Saint Wilgefortis, thought to have lived between the eighth and twelfth centuries, reportedly engaged in self-starvation resulting in emaciation and (what has been speculated to be) lanugo – the fine downy hair that may result from anorexia and malnutrition (Keel & Klump, 2003)

So, taking these all together, I still don't think it should be added back in. To me, it seems like there is only one moderately credible source (lacey.doc) that may make a lanugo-Wilgefortis connection, and then two sources that dispute it, one non-credible source, and one source that simply reinterprets the original Lacey source. I might be stricter about sources than other editors, though. -kotra (talk) 00:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello again! Your statements are valid and thorough. I really appreciate your feedback- I debated whether to include the statement, as I do not have any other pertinent information on Wilgefortis, besides a reference from the book Holy Anorexia- in which the author makes a supposition that it COULD be the case, this is why I used the word "suggested" rather than a solid affirmative. Writing this Wiki article was sort of a... whim- I went looking for more information on anorexia mirabilis, and so I looked here and was SHOCKED to not find a wiki article. I just figured I found the gap, so I should fill it. I am not a scholar of any variety, and though I did my homework and research, I did not spend years studying the subject matter in school. I have had enormous fun with this project, and the feedback I have gotten from Wikipedia editors and laypeople has been helpful, exciting, and interesting. I believe you are correct in your decision to leave it out, and I again thank you for your time, effort, and conversation! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Esmeralda.rupp (talk • contribs) 01:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)