Talk:Animal rights and the Holocaust

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 Animal rights and the Holocaust is part of WikiProject Animal rights, a project to create and improve articles related to animal rights. If you would like to help, please consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome.
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This article was nominated for deletion on August 17, 2006. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

Contents

[edit] As discussed

Ed, I've created the stub. Good luck! :-) SlimVirgin (talk) 19:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

LOL, it's still #5 on my to-do list. But thanks for the headstart! --Uncle Ed 19:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Um, Slim, sorry I didn't get started yet. I was working on Mission of the Messiah which somehow seems related.
I hope when you finish, we can use the nifty {{main}} template to link from PETA to this article; with Animal rights and the Holocaust being a sub-article or "spin-off" from PETA. (If it's neutral, then it's not a fork. Keep saying this, like a mantra. ;-) --Uncle Ed 20:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Singer reference

Should the comparison made by a Singer character in the Letter Writer, as referenced by the PETA article, not be included here too? Crum375 23:05, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, also in The Penitent. There's a lot more material to add. I'm planning to work on it over the next few days. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmm. I've already added the Singer quote, not having read this talk page before. Feel free to rewrite it or put it into better context or whatever. —Gabbe 11:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Difficulty of maintaining neutrality

I daresay that the difficulty of maintaining neutrality about the Holocaust on your Plate campaign has not been lessened by the (agreed-upon) creation of this spin-off page. In order to keep it from becoming a Wikipedia:POV fork, we need to keep working hard to ensure that our own pro- or anti-PETA biases do not leak into our writing.

One issue that comes to mind is whether comparing prisoners to pigs:

  • elevates animals to the moral level of people (as PETA no doubt intended it); or,
  • reduces people to moral level of animals (as ADF certainly took it)

Immediately I'll be accused of bias for even bringing this up, and that's okay. Even though Wikipedia is not a blog, if anyone's interested in my views you are welcome to ask me. As a member of the Unification Church, I believe in the doctrine of Three Great Blessings (sorry, I've never gotten around to writing that article; just lazy, I guess). Sneak preview: Before Father Moon became a reverend, he was an avid observer of nature and:

  • One day after he had prayed, it seemed as if the trees, bushes and grass began to speak: "Nobody takes care of us. We feel abandoned by mankind" Realizing that nature cried out to be loved, he felt like embracing the entire world, vowing, "I will be your caretaker." [1]

Sorry if this is off-topic. Just thought I'd say something nice. --Uncle Ed 14:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge this and 'Animal rights and antisemitism'

As someone has proposed the 2 be merged, and no-one has discussed it over there, I will ask about it here. Animal rights and antisemitism seems to be the large chunk of text that someone was trying to add to Animal rights a while ago. As it stands, it is entirely biased and therefore POV. I think we should summarise the text further as it seems to be an analysis of one author only, quoting lots of their text. However, it also contains some valid points.

We wouldn't really want to merge it into this article as it would be off topic, but should we merge this article into that one after working on it? What do people think?-Localzuk(talk) 14:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Note also, that it was created by Farnsworth J, a known Homey sock. It does seem to be a bit of a POV fork to me.-Localzuk(talk) 14:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Now that I look at it, I see it would be off-topic to add it here. I don't know what to do with it. It's an incredibly silly argument/page that HOTR added only to cause trouble. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timing of PETA apology

The current edit reads:

Stuart Bender, legal counsel for the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, wrote to PETA asking them to "cease and desist this reprehensible misuse of Holocaust materials."
Ingrid Newkirk apologized for the pain it had caused, writing...

The first of these incidents occured more than 2 years before the second. I believe that mentioning them consecutively implies that the apology was made soon afterwards, and is therefore deceptive.

The following edit of mine was reverted:

Over 2 years after the campaign began, Ingrid Newkirk apologized for the pain it had caused. On May 5 2005 she wrote:

The other editor considered clarifying the timing to be "editorializing and considering her apology late".

I do not indend to revert or debate the point, so I am leaving this note for the consideration of future editors. -81.79.242.103 01:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a clear timeline is needed. If there are sources showing exactly when Newkirk first found out about the unexpected (by her) negative reaction, then the legal threat(s), and how she handled the situation from the beginning, then it would make sense to present the events objectively. What we should not do is pick items selectively. For example, if there was a lot of 'behind the scenes' activity, with Newkirk first learning about the negative reaction, then trying to explain that the campaign was promoted and supported by Jewish PETA members as well as Israeli papers (as she explains here) and this was an ongoing process, then it would be wrong to just mention the start and finish points of the process. Presenting just the start and finish could imply that no related activity was going on in the meanwhile. Crum375 01:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I tried to add the date along with more context from her article, hopefully this will address some of the concerns. Crum375 02:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)