User talk:Angr/Archive 17

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Big problem with User:Khoikhoi

Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti’s body has not yet been recovered yet, you can check any media source, so how can you say hes dead? Please, unblock spinster678 and neville123. Nawab Bugti is not JIMMY HOFFA, remember that. When his dead body is found, whosoever wishes can pronounce him dead on wikpedia. In the meanwhile, please unblock these two users, its quite frustrating really since they’re family members of Nawab Bugti while all these other idiots are people who have nothing to do with Pakistan, let alone Nawab Bugti. Thankyou!

This has nothing to do with whether the man is alive or not. The images have been deleted from Wikipedia because they have no source information allowing users to verify that they are free content. I will unblock the users if I can be assured they will not continue to upload problematic images. —The preceding signed comment was added by Angr (talk • contribs). 15:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I know you probably don't care, Angr, but they found his body today. —Khoikhoi 05:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Language

Although I can't help regularly, I made a few suggestions for the section "Did you know?" at Portal:Language/Did you know/Nominate. If you agree, I can update that part of the portal. Ι have created and I am looking after the Portal:Language of the greek wikipedia (under the username "Valentin"). It is a good idea to try to find someone to help regularly with this portal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics. --Michkalas 16:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC) [Better to answer to the talkpage of the portal and let me know by leaving a message to my talkpage]

Deletion discussion invitation

I have nominated this page for deletion again. The discussion can be found here. Since you were involved in the previous VfD, I'm sure you could contribute important points to the debate and I invite you to become involved and vote. AEuSoes1 03:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright upload help

Hi Angr, I have come across your edits on more than a couple of occasions, and you appear to be familiar with image copyright tags etc. Well, I have got permission from artist Don Troiani's secretary to use "Sons of Erin", only on Wikipedia, from website [1]. They have sent me a higher resolution image for that purpose which I have now on my computer. If you could help me on this, with proper tags ect, that would be most helpful. Thanks. Eagleston 16:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I see other images on WP have a "copyright notice" attached to their upload info page. How can they still retain copyright and not others? Eagleston 17:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
If the said image was a low resolution <<Promotional>> image by the artist. Then would it be OK to use it on Irish American page? And, will copyright still be held by the artist etc? Thanks! Eagleston 16:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for admin attention

I'm requesting some Wikipedia administrators to communicate with a user, Aeusoes1, who is causing some problems for the Hawaiian phonology article. Please look at the article's talk page, section "Edits by AEuSoes1", especially "Edit 3". If it's appropriate, in your opinion, please consider a temporary block for that user. Otherwise, perhaps you can reason with him. Thanks. Agent X 16:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Siberian language (2 nomination)

This stuff was undeleted... --Vladimir Volokhonsky 08:14, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for Admin attention

Sir: I'm referring to this template which an IP editor keeps changing. I'd like my last revision to stand, for reasons that I've enumerated in the IP editor's talk and on the German noticeboard (where I received User:Carabinieri's support). If you'd like me to restate my reasons, I can do that. However, what I don't want is a long revert war. Do you think semi-protection might be justified? Biruitorul 16:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

re: ==Worldwide View== on Talk:International Phonetic Alphabet by User:Angr 05:07, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Was the image removed by the time you removed the tag?100110100 10:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

No. I removed the tag about twelve hours before I replaced the image. Angr 10:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

RE:Ogham Image

This image was taken from Katherine Forsyth, "The ogham-inscribed spindle-whorl from Buckquoy: evidence for the Irish language in pre-Viking Orkney?", in The Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, 125, (1995), pp. 677-96 (ARCHway), illus 2. I uploaded it as a historical 2-D object, but it is also Crown Copyright, which as far as I understand, "may be reproduced free of charge in any format or medium provided it is reproduced accurately and not used in a misleading context." If you disagree with my assignment of 2-D art status, I can simply put a crown copyright tag (see Template talk:CrownCopyright), and since paranoid wiki thinks it sometimes necessary, claim fair use with this tag. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 19:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

RE: Unspecified source for Image:NorthBorneoFlag2.png

Thanks for uploading Image:NorthBorneoFlag2.png. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Angr 12:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I've already asked the original uploader, Xanatos 2097, for source information. --Fibonacci 00:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

To maintain NPOV I took the liberty of adding:

Four reasons to stay. Know that you are appreciated. BusterD 17:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Happy Admin Promotion Anniversary!

Wishing Angr/Archive 17 a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day!  Jorcoga  00:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Wishing Angr/Archive 17 a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Michael 04:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Greetings on your Admin Promotion Anniversary! --Bhadani 15:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Memories of the AUM scare

For about a week in mid January 2006, you edited some articles (e.g. Chopin, Welsh morphology, American English) to remove calls of the "book reference" template, citing a then proposed (and later rejected) policy "WP:AUM". I'm not calling anybody a troll, I believe everybody acted in good faith. But in retrospect the entire incident sounds like a medieval witch hunt, or perhaps the parody of it in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. This time I guess it all ended with Brion Vibber's comment on January 21. But on January 6, you wrote that "Netoholic is certainly right that we have to avoid meta-templates". I don't know if I have found all parts of this discussion. It's not easy to dig up history about Wikipedia. Have you tried to summarize these events? How much can you recall? Do you keep a diary about your WP life? (I must admit I don't, and I regret that.) Have you got any idea if more people were involved in removing book reference template calls, and how many articles could have been touched by this? When trying to analyze the monthly dumps, the template calls mean I can find data and know what they mean, but the substituted plain text is opaque. So not only did you waste your time doing these edits, but you also reduced the value of the articles. Book reference has since been replaced by the template "cite book", currently used in 36,300 articles, and the entire syntax for conditionals has been introduced. --LA2 22:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm aware of all that. I use {{cite book}} myself now regularly. When I wrote "Netoholic is certainly right that we have to avoid meta-templates", WP:AUM was marked as being policy, so I was doing my bit to implement it. I don't know who else might have been removing the old book reference template, nor do I know now what articles I removed it from, though you could certainly dig through my contributions from about that time if you really want to find out. It wasn't systematic: if I was reading an article and noticed the book reference template in it, I usually removed it, but I didn't make any especial effort to try to find them all and remove them. Angr 06:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to bother u

But you gotta go down to the Mariah Carey article fast! They are vandalizing the shit out of it! Please bro, you gotta lock it up.Cameron Nedland 01:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Mast Destoryed... Again!

We note from the history of Peterborough that the picture of one of it's prominent landmarks, the Morborne radio mast, has been removed. Why?? 22:59, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Probably it didn't have a source or licensing information, or it was suspected of being a copyright violation. If you tell me what the file name was, I can look into it. Angr 07:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Unicode

Where are you getting your Unicode information from? It doesn't match that shown on the Unicode website. E.g. you changed e with stroke to say that its capital is at U+0245, but [2] says U+0245 is capital turned v. --Ptcamn 12:17, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh crap, it looks like they changed it or made a mistake earlier or something. I have an earlier version where there is no small letter glottal stop, but U+242 is capital B with a stroke, and that whole column from capital B with a stroke down to lowercase Y with a stroke is one position earlier. And the fonts I have installed on my computer (AbRomanSerif and Aboriginal Sans) have that encoding too, so the changes I made look right on my computer. Have I screwed everything up for people with more up-to-date fonts? Angr 12:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Are you making sure that your source materials are formally approved standards? We do change things during the ballot period. -- Evertype·✆ 18:17, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, it all came from http://www.unicode.org/, so I thought so. But it doesn't match up with the link Ptcamn supplied above, and neither do the two fonts I have that include characters between U+0242 and U+024F, AbRomanSerif and Aboriginal Sans. In both of those fonts, U+0242 is capital B with a stroke, U+024E is lowercase y with a stroke, and U+024F is empty. And since those are the only fonts I have installed, that's how they appear for me: &#x242; is ɂ, which for me looks like capital B with a stroke, but is supposed to be a lowercase glottal stop, while &#x24e; is Ɏ, which for me looks like a lowercase y with a stroke, but is supposed to be the capital. Very annoying, especially since there are so very few fonts that have this series of characters to begin with. Do you know of a free font that has them correctly encoded? (I'm sorry, I know you sell fonts for a living, but my soul is repulsed by the idea of spending money on fonts.) Angr 19:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
The latest version of AbRomanSerif has them in the right places. --Ptcamn 19:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
You're right, it does; so does Aboriginal Sans. And now the characters look like they're supposed to, so I'll go back and try to repair the damage I've done (oy vey)! Angr 19:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I've found another set of errors in AbRoman Serif and Aboriginal Sans, and these are still there in the current version. According to Unicode 5.0, U+2C65 through U+2C6C are supposed to be, in order: small letter a with stroke, small letter t with diagonal stroke, capital letter H with descender, small letter h with descender, capital letter K with descender, small letter k with descender, capital letter Z with descender, and small letter z with descender. Instead, in these fonts, the small a and t with strokes come at the end of this series instead of the beginning of it. Angr 20:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Consensus or Keep?

Could you look at this edit and rule as to what the text should in these boxes? Ta. -- Evertype·✆ 17:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It's probably not so important, but I suppose "Keep" might have encouraged a third one. Ah well. -- Evertype·✆ 17:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Two minor Irish questions

Hi, Angr! It's been a while since I bugged you, hasn't it? :) I have just two really minor questions this time. If you could answer them whenever you have a spare minute, I'd be very grateful.

  1. How is abhaile pronounced? According to my pronunciation bible, it's supposed to be /'aulʲə/, but what I hear is more like /ə'walʲə/ (which kind of makes sense, when you think that abhaile is a form of baile). Still, which is right (standard)?
    I say [ə'waljə], if that helps. -- Evertype·✆ 21:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
  2. In sentences Bheinn ansin (I would be there) and Bhínn ansin (I used to be there), is bheinn pronounced exactly the same as bhínn? That is my impression based on the pronunciation guidelines. If they are pronounced the same, how would I know if the speaker means "would be" or "used to be"? If they are not, what is the difference?
    I say [vejŋ] and [vi:ɲ], if that helps. -- Evertype·✆ 21:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!--Ag Foghlaim 20:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips, Evertype! Whether it helps or not depends on which dialect of Irish you are speaking. In order not to get confused to death, I stick with Caighdeán/Connacht (I may move on to incorporating other dialects in a few years). Which part of Ireland are you from?--Ag Foghlaim 21:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Evertype's answers. abhaile is indeed basically "a-bhaile", it belongs to the class of Irish adverbs that begin with unstressed [ə]. And bheinn is an exception to the rule that ei is usually pronounced i before nasals; as we talked about last time, these forms of "tá" like to play by their own rules. Angr 06:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Darn, I knew I should have asked you about all forms of tá just in case! Anyway, I see that Evertype indicated above that he pronounces bhínn as /vi:ɲ/. What is that /ɲ/ sound? Is it the same as /nʲ/, /ŋʲ/, or something completely different (sort of like /ɲ/ in French gagner, maybe)? I don't see this particular symbol anywhere else in the Irish orthography article. And speaking of Irish orthography, I see that you added a couple exceptions for the ea and eo combinations (which was very helpful to me, by the way). Two questions about that: are (an)seo and seomra not qualifying exceptions as well? Is the /o/ sound in beag really /o/? On the tapes I listen to (with one of them, however, being Munster-based), it kind of sounds like /o/, but it's not really the same /o/ as in other words. Am I just being too concious about such minor details, or am I just listening to the wrong tapes?
Finally, are there other (common) adverbs structured in the same way as abhaile?
As usual, there is no end to my gratitude for your invaluable help. If it weren't for you patiently answering my questions, I would have probably put my Irish studies to end soon after I started. With your help, it will be my first anniversary next week, and I am excited to report that I find myself understanding 40-60% of content of unabridged Irish texts (such as the Lá articles or articles in Irish Wikipedia), or 70-80% with a dictionary (although I'm not having that much success on the speaking front, nor is it easy for me to write in Irish myself yet). Thanks again!--Ag Foghlaim 15:10, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
/ɲ/ is basically like in French gagner. It's used in northerly dialects (Mayo (where Evertype lives) and Donegal) as the "tense" equivalent of /nʲ/. Seomra has a long vowel AFAIK, but you're right that (an)seo is another exception; I forgot it before. The vowel of beag is certainly phonemically /o/ in most accents (though in Donegal it sure sounded more like /e/ to me), but phonetically it's probably rather fronted because of following a palatalized consonant. Keep in mind that the color (backness vs. frontness) of short vowels in Irish is almost entirely determined by the quality of the surrounding consonants. If when pronouncing beag you're careful to make the b properly palatalized and the g good and back, just get the height of the vowel right (mid, not high or low), and the color will almost take care of itself. There's a whole slew of adverbs starting with an unstressed [ə]: besides abhaile, there's abhus, anseo, ansin, ansiúd, anall, anonn, aduaidh, aneas, anoir, aniar, anuas, aníos, inné, inniu, anocht, amárach, anuraidh, arís, arú, amach, amuigh, isteach, istigh, and probably several more I'm not thinking of right now. Are you active at ga: at all? Angr 15:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
The reason why I thought seomra is supposed to be pronounced with short /o/ is because it is (kind of) a recommendation of the Irish People lessons (namely this one, but they do mention it's only true "in parts of Ireland").
I'll have to study more about the color/height concepts—I've never seen sounds explained in those terms—and it looks like they may be quite useful in my studies.
Also, thanks for the extensive list of the /ə/-adverbs. While I knew most of them, I didn't know them all, knew a couple of them wrong, and never thought of putting abhaile in the same row.
As for the ga:, no, I'm not really active, although present. I'm planning to increase my participation there as my Irish progresses, but that probably won't be for another year or so. For now, I'm just using the articles as study materials, tracking a few discussions, and adding interwikis when I see that an article I am reading lacks them. Nothing too grandiose :)--Ag Foghlaim 16:10, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Vowels have always been described in terms of height, frontness/backness, and lip rounding. (Use of the term "color" for "frontness/backness" isn't very common, but it's very convenient, and I like to promulgate it where I can.) Angr 16:26, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
You are right, of course. "Color" is what threw me off; I was aware of the height, frontness/backness, and roundedness concepts.
By the way, I forgot to ask you this. Evertype gave pronunciations of bheinn and bhínn as /vejŋ/ and /vi:ɲ/. I am sure it was a simple oversight on his part, but just to make sure--all consonants in these two words are supposed to be palatalized, aren't they?--Ag Foghlaim 19:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes. In fact, before front vowels like that, it would be difficult not to palatalize the /v/ sounds. Angr 04:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Roermond/rewrite

Hello,

Roermond/rewrite is a /Temp file, and as such it should not be in the main Wikipedia space. I went over it line by line. Aside from the (in my opinion) oversized template, there is absolutely zero-point-zero content in Roermond/rewrite that is not in the main artcile (Roermond), and quite a bit of info in the main article that is not in the "rewrite". They even have identical spelling errors.

Would you please either move this article to your userspace or (more likely) tag it as an AfD article for deletion?

Thanks --Ling.Nut 05:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

What does this have to do with me? I made one minor edit to that article a year ago. Angr 06:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Eeeek. Please accept my humblest and most abject apologies. I clicked the wrong link, and am now suitably mortified and embarassed. --Ling.Nut 22:22, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Meißen

I filed a WP:RM, damn their eyes. -- Evertype·✆ 07:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

re:Oops

Sorry about that. My brain must have been elsewhere. I hate when that happens! :-) Angr 21:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

No need for sorry Angr, sometimes i did it too:) --Ugur Basak 21:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Winbot and ɔ

I have no idea since I use the unicodify function in WP:AWB, you may have to ask this in WT:AWB. --WinHunter (talk) 13:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Welsh question

Gosh I'm rusty! "newydda" sounds very informal, I think you'd need at least an apostrophe on the end. "Ni" at the end of the sentence, anyway. I don't think I've ever worked out comparatives for "newydd" before - possibly newydd, newyddaf, newyddach / new, newer, newest, but it just doesn't look right to me. I'd probably go more for somethng like "Ein testunau diweddarach ni", "our most recent articles". What do you think? -- Arwel (talk) 19:42, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Argh!! Yes, I don't get back home nearly often enough :( -- Arwel (talk) 19:55, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Birthday

Thank you! :) --Djordje D. Bozovic 12:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)