Talk:Anglo

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Contents 1 Objections 2 Link added to ‘Anglo-Celtic’ article 3 Addition & Clarification 4 Anglo as an offensive term 5 Skip 6 "Anglo" in contemporary usage in the United States

[edit] Objections

I deleted a sentence saying that "Anglo" for any white non-Hispanic is as erroneous as "Mexican" for any Hispanic. "Anglo" is to England roughly as "Hispanic" is to Spain, and thus "Anglo" can cover an American with no English ancestry (like me), just as "Hispanic" can cover a Guatemalan with no Spanish ancestry. The right analogy (but irrelevant to this article) would be that calling a Jewish American "English" would be like calling a Guatemalan "Mexican". However, I added a sentence (NPOV, I hope) about considering the term erroneous. JerryFriedman 23:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean by "Jewish American", do they have real Israeli ancestry or going by their religion. Dudtz 1/13/06 9:56 PM EST

Same with Polish, Swedish, and other non-English white Americans.--204.108.237.194 22:18, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I am an American of mixed European ancestry (mostly Italian), which does not include English, but I often call myself an Anglo, meaning non-Hispanic White. English is my only native language, and my family is assimilated into White American culture, I consider the English (not the Italians) to be my cultural ancestors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bostoner (talk • contribs) 05:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I have ancestry from a Spanish speaking country, but I will always consider myself Anglo, English is my first language, and my ONLY language. I am not Hispanic not matter what the census says

I removed the "citation needed" tag for the assertion that most non-hisp., white americans do not identify as anglo. To mind the opposite assertion would require a cite, not this one.71.106.109.86 21:33, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link added to ‘Anglo-Celtic’ article

Hello, in the introduction and in the ‘See also’ section here I have just added a reference/link to Wikipedia’s relevant ‘Anglo-Celtic’ article. I also put the sections under 'Specialized Usage' into alphabetical order. Kind regards, Pconlon 11:15, 27 June 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Addition & Clarification

I added the following to the section on Ireland (with reference): "...a historical term applied to the Anglo-Normans (Anglo-French) who arrived in Ireland in 1169 CE or after. Their leader, Strongbow, was crowned King Richard of Leinster in 1171 CE, becoming the first non-native to be King of an Irish province." Kind regards, Pconlon 11:28, 27 June 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Anglo as an offensive term

I think it should be noted that the 'Anglo' prefix can be considered offensive to some, terms like Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-Irish and indeed Anglo by itself are all potential offensive and i think the article should reflect that. Gazh 09:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Where are your references for this - you can't simply add things or delete them because of someones POV Dionysus99 11:08, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Evidence? Centuries of the Anglo-Irish masterrace are sufficient. Have a read of this little gem or this or this, for starters. Needless, to say, brutalisation by the WASPs of an entire people for centuries would not make 'Anglo' offensive. Nope. The natives would come out with a glowing love for their supposedly racially superior Tutonic Anglo superiors. 86.42.82.239 (talk) 23:51, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Is "Anglo" in isolation (i.e. not part of "Anglo-Irish" etc.) a term actually used in Ireland? If not, there shouldn't be an Ireland section at all. --JWB (talk) 06:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Skip

I live in Australia and have never heard the term 'Skip' being used to refer to anything, let-alone a person of anglo descent. I say this needs a reference to back it up, or it should be deleted as mere hear-say.139.230.245.20 03:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Anglo" in contemporary usage in the United States

Looking at the contemporary United States sub-section of the article, the following definition is also available:

"Anglo is the counterpart of Latino/Latina or Hispanic. ... it refers to any white person whose first language is English and whose descent is not Latin American or Hispanic." See Encarta dictionary.

The American Heritage dictionary definition currently refered to in the article is a bit confusing, because it closely mixes American and Canadian usages. The language describing the American usage is actually just:

"In contemporary American usage, Anglo is used primarily in direct contrast to Hispanic or Latino. In this context it is not limited to persons of English or even British descent, but can be generally applied to any non-Hispanic white person. Thus in parts of the United States with large Hispanic populations, an American of Polish, Irish, or German heritage might be termed an Anglo just as readily as a person of English descent. However, in parts of the country where the Hispanic community is smaller or nonexistent, or in areas where ethnic distinctions among European groups remain strong, Anglo has little currency as a catch-all term for non-Hispanic whites."

(The discussion about "non-French" usage in this American Heritage reference is limited to Canada - which is different sub-section of this article.)

Further, the "takes offense" sentences in the current text are supported only by one very old "letter to the editor," and one very old anecdotal personal reflection magazine article, rather than a standard "reliable source." I suggest that the "takes offense" sentences either be deleted as unsourced or, at best, placed in a footnote.

Hence, I propose the following for this sub-section of the article:

In contemporary usage in the United States, Anglo refers to White Americans whose first language is English.<note 1><note 2> The term Anglo generally is used in contrast to Hispanic or Latino (that is, Americans for whom Spanish is their first language, or Americans of Latin American ancestry). In this modern usage, the term Anglo is used generally to refer to any English-speaking White American, without regard to whether or not the person is of English descent.<note 3><note 4>

<note 1> Encarta dictionary cite

<note 2> American Heritage cite (limited to American - not Canadian - usage)

<note 3> Some White Americans may take offense at the term Anglo believing that it refers to being of English descent, rather than refering to being non-Hispanic or speaking English as a first language. See El Andar article.

<note 4> Older usage in the United States did more strictly limit the term Anglo to refering to English heritage. See American Heritage cite.

GiveItSomeThought (talk) 06:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's the definition from Merriam-Webster's.

These are sources testifying to Cajun usage of "Anglo" for non-Cajun Anglophone Whites: [1], [2], [3], [4]. SamEV (talk) 22:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I see the Cajun usage now - perfectly sensible Anglo = English-speaking white. How about the following:

In contemporary usage in the United States, Anglo refers to White Americans whose first language is English.<note 1><note 2> The term Anglo generally is used in contrast to Hispanic or Latino (that is, Americans for whom Spanish is their first language, or Americans of Latin American ancestry). In addition, Anglo is also used to contrast between French-speaking Cajuns and Enlish-speaking White Americans. In these modern usages, the term Anglo is used generally to refer to any English-speaking White American, without regard to whether or not the person is of English descent.<note 3><note 4> Finally, Anglo continues to be used in its older, more specialized meaning, as an adjective meaning English or British, as in "Anglo-Saxon" or "Anglo-Irish Treaty."

<note 1> Encarta dictionary cite

<note 2> American Heritage cite (limited to American - not Canadian - usage)

<note 3> Some White Americans may take offense at the term Anglo believing that it refers to being of English descent, rather than refering to being non-Hispanic or speaking English as a first language. See El Andar article.

<note 4> Older usage in the United States did more strictly limit the term Anglo to refering to English heritage. See American Heritage cite.

We would use one or more of the useful cites you found to support the new Cajun-related statement. I'd be curious to learn how long Anglo has been used to mean "Anglophone" in Cajun country - any idea? GiveItSomeThought (talk) 03:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I clarified my previous message, as I was indeed referring to Cajuns' use of the term. And I'm adding another dictionary definition here ([5]).

Note that per the dictionaries, it's not so much about being Spanish- or French-speaking, but about being of Hispanic or French descent. Thus the term is applied to, say, Cameron Diaz and Frankie Muniz, who are Anglophone and speak no Spanish, in contrast to other Anglophones who, unlike them, are not of Hispanic ancestry. Likewise, AFAIK Cajuns are for the most part English-speaking now, but have always formed a distinct ethnicity from the non-Cajun whites, whom they call Anglos.

I'm really not sure when this usage began or was established, but from the way the above and other sources use it it seemes to date from the 19th century, at least -- You should try to confirm it, though. The Cajuns have been in Louisiana since 1755, so it could go back to the 18th century, even. SamEV (talk) 13:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)