Talk:Anglo-Chinese School

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reads like an ad. --θαλαμηγός 02:29, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)

Very big revision done, with related pages. --khaosworks 01:53, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Added the list of CCAs and a short intro. -- p 0 r + z 09:18, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Any intention of adding more information to match R.I.'s quality? -- p 0 r + z 15:42, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

feels somewhat lacking in information ... any suggestions for improvements/additions? -- GeCh 24 Jan 2005

Keep in mind that the purpose of Wikipedia is not supposed to be exhaustive, but encyclopedic - there is a difference. It should be enough to give a person a general idea of what the school is about, not a detailed list of everything, which is unnecessary. I'm already leary of adding any more "achievements" since that can rapidly devolve into a pissing match between the various branches (not to mention RI), and that's not the point. -khaosworks 18:50, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Point taken; Thx for the heads-up. -- GeCh 15:17 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

i second that, it really is a big ad. c'mon people, spruce this up a bit, organise it better. look at raffles' one for a good example. and why is there one whole big section dedicated to the CCA in ACS(I)? that's totally meaningless for a encyclopeadia. please try to divde this page into sections for the various schools, or make a new ones dedicated to each.

Well, yes, the key thing is perhaps the impact on Singapore/the world/society? -- Natalinasmpf 15:32, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Concur with (who's that?) about the cca thing. making new pages dedicated to each sch is a good idea. it would encourage more sch-specific info instead of just generic info. although i dont really know about what the ac schools are like and i wont know any compelling reason to keep all the ac schools in one article. —Goh wz 10:45, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Therefore, I have deleted the entire CCA section, as it is specific to ACS (Independent), and not to the ACS family of schools. The Fascist 07:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

haha, it was me. a rafflesian, eh? your page is so much better. --Bluefreak 10:50, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

may i suggest, creating separate pages for each of the Anglo-Chinese Schools? --Bluefreak 15:08, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The question is whether the individual schools are notable enough individually to deserve separate pages. What we don't want is a bunch of stubs or articles that duplicate one another. --khaosworks 15:49, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Goh Keng Swee was also former Defence Minister. You may also want to add the following 2 prominent alumni: Desmond Kuek, SAF Chief of Army Ronnie Tay, RSN Chief of Navy

Contents

[edit] orchid named after it?

The bare statement of this fact alone is kind of misleading: I believe the flower was named only because the school happened to genetically engineer / hybrid an orchid and thus had the authority to name the new species as it wanted? Stating this fact without the circumstances kind of misleads someone to thinking it was something where a national scientific authority in Singapore happened to give the school the honour. -- Natalinasmpf 18:16, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Issue Related to SG Articles

There should be one main page (like now), then pages for all the 6 ACS schools.

[edit] Standard of article

I almost never bite newbies, but the standard of writing in the subarticles and subsections about the various schools is positively atrocious. If these were written by a student or graduate of ACS I am appalled and ashamed. It's not even as if they are typographical errors - the consistent pattern of grammatical mistakes makes it obvious that they are done out of ignorance, not sloppiness. Looking at Ng Eng Chin's entry, for example, makes me wince in pain and makes me feel like calling him up and asking him what has happened since he was my form teacher. I dread to think what my fellow old boys would think about these pages if they read them.

Not to mention the other problems with this as an encylopedia article: POV, self-aggrandisement, copyright violations (which I have attempted to remove), and my general sense of horror at what this article (and its associated articles) has become. It makes me regret that I ever tried to improve the page in the first place, and the problems run so deep that I fear nothing but a complete rewrite will improve matters, and I simply don't have the time to do this, or keep chasing after the mistakes, at the moment.

I just had to get that off my chest. Bottom line: these articles need severe improvement. --khaosworks 12:48, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

"the school has a reputation for producing students who are, if not brighter, then possessing sharp and inquisitive minds" This is severely POV. Even Cambridge and Oxford articles don't boast about themselves that much. Mandel 15:52, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
It certainly needs a lot of repair! - Mailer Diablo 28 June 2005 15:31 (UTC)
Does it? I don't see why, it reads rather fine, unless of course, someone has edited it since these comments were added. Of course, I only barely proof-read it, and also, I may very well be biased being an old boy myself, but it isn't anything that insults ACS or anything to that extent. So maybe I don't get how wikis work and so don't get what the fuss is about, but how can you truly be fully impartial when it comes to something like this? Like the quoted sentence by Mendel, it only says it has the reputation of such, at the time of entry, would that really be wrong to say if that really is the case? And oh, it is the case. And I hear trash about this reading an ad, and then talk about RI's page, I went to look, and all I've got to say is give me a break. It'd need editing, but I wouldn't paint that bleak a picture as some of you have. --202.156.2.202 2 July 2005 15:13 (UTC)
Consider this particular cleanup I had to do. Also, read some of the daughter articles created on the individual schools. --khaosworks July 2, 2005 15:29 (UTC)

If one wants to boast, I'm sure statistics will run in good stead rather than mere boasting - how the school is ranked in the local context, for example. And yes, the daughter articles read like ads. Join the school boys!Mandel 16:35, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

well okay to be fair the section on "school history" is rather decent, although of course after much cleanup by other editors. Chensiyuan 01:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ong Teck Chin

FYI - Is undergoing VFD right now. - Mailer Diablo 28 June 2005 15:30 (UTC)

Mind voting? I see no reason why it should be deleted. -- Natalinasmpf 28 June 2005 20:53 (UTC)

The Ong Teck Chin article was kept as it was agreed that he is a rather prominent person and has contributed much to Singapore, and not only ACS.

[edit] Reputation

Should we put the molestation cases in the reputation section? --Terence Ong Talk 07:11, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it should... What would be the purpose of that?

It appear in the newspapers, we shouldn't cover up on this. Wikipedia is not censorship. Somehow, ACSians (if you are one as well, anon) should accept the fact that these infamous cases are part of ACS history and reputation. There is no use covering up as someone else may add it in again. P.S. Anon, the IP you are using is an infamous vandal IP. If you are making legitimate edits, I suggest you create an account. --Terence Ong 11:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

This was well publicized but the police, MOE and the ACS BOG all conducted full investigations and vindicated him. It would be appropriate to note the accusations and the findings of innocence as a historical record in this encyclopaedic entry.

[edit] ACS Story

This talkpage may seem dead, but ACS has a long history. The ACS Story book can be found at the Lee Kong Chian Reference Library at National Library Building. Very thick book, any comments? --Terence Ong (恭喜发财) 17:39, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Objectivity vs. Subjectivity

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for the provision of facts, not for you to praise subjects of articles, and so I made several key deletes of glorifications. I acknowledge that ACS is indeed quite successful, but we cannot make the judgement of ACS for anyone else by talking about "how good" or the "ACS Spirit is strong...". I hope you understand.--202.156.6.54 16:27, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ACS schools achievements

Though ACS(independent) is the flagship of all ACS schools, i suggest the achievements of each ACS school should be shown more and not just the bulk of it from ACS(indepedent).

[edit] Anglo-Chinese School's Userbox

Check out these userboxes that I had created. Use them if you want to. Aranho 10:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ACS name

As a proud Malaysian ACS-ian who was told back in school that we should be proud of our affiliations all around Malaysia and Singapore, I am utterly shocked and flabbergasted by the attitude of certain individuals here who choose to use the ACS name, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Chinese_School in particular, very selfishly! Before anyone gets me wrong here, allow me to first say that I commend the time and effort you/you all have put into creating the ACS SINGAPORE side of the story. It is an example I wished more of the ex or present ACS-ians from the other side of the strait would emulate. Now having said that, who gave the primary editors here the right to use the Wiki 'Anglo-Chinese School' link to refer to Singaporean school's ONLY, with mere crumbs of words on the side to appease the ACS-ians of other institutions? I am hereby cordially requesting the editors of this page to leave the Wiki ACS page as a list of all ACS schools, from and to which other ACS pages are linked. And NOT for the benefit of any one particular ACS institution!! Balbir77 06:03, June 29 2007 (UTC)

In Line with Wikipedia policy, We are hereby offering to discuss the current dispute about this article with its Singaporean creators before taking this matter further. I have unsuccessfully tried to explain to Mr. Terence Chua about leaving this page as a GENERAL ACS page with links to other ACS institutions. Deep down we all know that is fair. But my requests have fallen on deaf ears and while we have made concentrated efforts in editing this page FAIRY, certain users continue to vandalize this site for personal gains. I hope we can resolve this as adults. We are all very proud ACS-ians and none of us wants to see the main Anglo-Chinese School page utilized by a particular cluster of schools. Hope this can be resolved peacefully Balbir77 15:58, July 01 2007 (UTC)

You didn't discuss it before doing any editing - you merely served notice on the talk page, and without waiting for a reply, unilaterally cut and pasted the entire wiki pages, destroying their edit history. InfernoXV 09:24, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Inferno, there's a HUGE difference in not discussing and making various attempts to discuss! I can assure you our initial approach was as humble. And we waited. But I suppose you expected us to just sit back while the you (and those who support your Singapore-only ACS page) took your time in making the necessary changes while the incorrect version is free for the world to see. We cannot allow that. I even sent out emails to you guys. So yes, I didnt discuss, but that's only because none of you were willing to!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.95.46.161 (talk • Balbir77 16:55, July 02 2007 (UTC)
I received no emails or messages. To presume that none of us were willing to discuss and hence not even bother is, well, presumptuous. InfernoXV 09:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Well whatever your reasons may be; You want a discussion, you have one. So we can start by discussing why it is you feel your institution deserves all the limelight surrounding the primary ACS name. Or more so, who gave YOU the authority to decide which ACS institution gets to keep the 'Anglo-Chinese School' name for itself and which doesn't. As far we as we are concerned, a few words describing the page as primarily about ACS Singapore with links to other ACS sites does not make a wrong right. You want an ACS Singapore page, do just that - maintain an ACS Singapore page. Balbir77 17:29, July 02 2007 (UTC)
It's not a matter of being in the limelight - merely that the Singapore branch is the best known online, and we got to creating a wiki article first, I think. InfernoXV 09:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Well kudos to you and your mates for being the first to catch the 'Anglo-Chinese School' wikipage. But I'm sorry to say, getting it first don't mean you have absolute authority to make it just ACS Singapore's page, with links to others. It's Wikipedia. Not a website registration. What message does this give? : "ACS Singapore is what ACS is actually all about - he rest are mere sidekicks"? So who's really being presumptuous here? The Singapore branch is the best known online according to who? Are statistics available on how many hits ACS Klang, Kampar, etc have had? Once again, presumptions. Presumptions that are imposed on others. Even if the Singapore branch is best known, that gives it the right to have the Wiki 'Anglo-Chinese School' page all to itself? So years down the road when an any ACS from Malaysia or Indonesia becomes the 'best known online', they get to take over this page?Balbir77 19:30, July 02 2007 (UTC)
While we're at it, you didn't attempt to discuss this at all. You posted that first paragraph in this section on 29 June and didn't wait for anyone to reply before unilaterally making drastic changes. Drastic changes require consensus and discussion - these usually take a week or so. Instead, you decided to start an edit war. This is not how we do things on wikipedia.
As it appears, since your registration on wikipedia, you have done nothing else but disruptive edits and reverts. Your time would be better served making individual wikipages on the ACS schools in Malaysia, improving the general level and breadth of information available on wikipedia. If you did that, we might be inclined to show you more respect. InfernoXV 11:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Balbir, perhaps a WP precedent/example of your suggestion can be put forth. Otherwise, for the time being, let's not do anything drastic unilaterally. Chensiyuan 03:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Chen, thanks for your suggestion. But we don't see this as a drastic approach. All it is, is a mere correction to a very wrong impression some of the users here want to give. May I ask you, and the rest now, what is so unfair about what the non-singaporean ACS-ians here are trying to achieve? All we are asking is for this ACS page to represent ACS. A C S. Not any one ACS institution in particular. All ACS institutions shall be free to link from this page. Why such selfishnessBalbir77 17:00, July 02 2007 (UTC)
Who is 'we'? I don't see anyone else messing with the page. InfernoXV 09:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
So the importance of this matter becomes less just because you don't see anyone else giving comments? Balbir77 17:23, July 02 2007 (UTC)
Well, at the moment it does appear that you are the only one pushing for change. It might help if you got more editors to contribute to the discussion. InfernoXV 09:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
While we're at it, please stop moving this discussion thread to the top of the page. New discussions are added at the bottom of the page, not the top, and position on the page has nothing to do with priority. InfernoXV 12:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Balbir77, Wikipedia's talk page guidelines (WP:TALK) state that new topics are to be added at the bottom of the talk page. This is to avoid potential confusion to users. —Goh wz 13:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, the current version of the page is replete with problems. Your proposal may be somewhat legitimate in principle, but practically speaking, the problems are self-evident. I believe Inferno has articulated the nature and extent of those problems. Chensiyuan 15:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I hope to do something with the article by citing sources etc. Balbir77, the guidelines are very clear and all new topics should go to the bottom. We should do a straw poll for consensus as per WP's policy. Please don't drastically alter the article for now since the article is in a real bad shape. Terence 15:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's an argument for keeping the main focus of this page on the Singapore school - the Singapore school is the only one known simply as Anglo-Chinese School, and has never been identified on any official materials as Anglo-Chinese School (Singapore) or had Singapore in its official name. On the other hand, the schools of Malaysia, which were founded after that of Singapore, have consistently and constantly placed their location in brackets or with a comma after their name, as in the case of Anglo Chinese School, Klang. A google will reveal that ACS Ipoh, for example, always specifies Ipoh. Also, there is no consistency in the use of a hyphen between Anglo and Chinese in the Malaysian schools. A case may therefore be made for keeping the focus as it is. I've already created a separate Anglo-Chinese Schools, Malaysia article. Balbir77 may go troll on that one instead. InfernoXV 16:01, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

The Malaysian branch is not affiliated to ACS Singapore/Indonesia since it is run by a different board of governors and not part of the Methodist Schools Foundation. Anything on the Malaysian school should not be mentioned here, due to no affiliation with the school, being two separate entities. InfernoXV, please assume good faith whatever we do in. =) Terence 13:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the assumption refers to that antecedent to further acquaintance... but of course, this is without commenting directly on this case. Chensiyuan 14:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Terence, actually, they *are* affiliated. Being run by a diff board of governers and not being part of the Methodist Schools Foundation is beside the point. The Methodist Schools of Malaysia and Singapore *are* affiliated - a simple check with the authorites in ACS will reveal that. When the ACS Choir visited ACS Ipoh in 1990, the principal of ACS Ipoh welcomed us and we all knew we were affiliated. InfernoXV 17:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Ok, anyway they are Methodist schools. Terence 08:05, 4 July 2007 (UTC)