Talk:Angel Gabriel (ship)

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from VfD:

What is this article ? Even history shows this article was never something. Am not sure this could be a speedy. Gtabary 10:39, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  • The history actually gives one a massive clue as to what the article is. Check for copyright violation (source text was suspect because it resembled a copy&paste of the source of another web page); Move to Angel Gabriel (ship); and disambiguate Angel Gabriel (or possibly Angel). Uncle G 11:39, 2005 Jan 12 (UTC)
Well thanks. I could not make sense at all of it. Did no even understand if it was a hoax, or the subject of it. I guess I was just enormously missled by the title. Was probably expecting un-cousiously an article about an angel named Gabriel. Is this vfd still valid then ? Gtabary 11:51, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The biblical Gabriel is an archangel. See also Gabriel (archangel) Starblind 18:34, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Abstain, The article is a little more than a passenger manifest, but I'll leave this one to people more knowledgeable in these matters. Inter 12:20, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Plenty of ways to deal with this without deletion. The actual Angel with this name deserves an article at the very least. Remember you don't have to wait for the end of a VFD vote to improve, move or redirect an article. DJ Clayworth 18:07, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Gabriel was actually an archangel, and does have an extensive article at Gabriel (archangel) Starblind 18:31, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)
    • Sure. Maybe this article should be a redirect to it, or a disambiguation page, or something. Not a delete. DJ Clayworth 19:42, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • (I've added a disambig link to Gabriel at the top; I'd suggest, if the vote is to delete, turning the page into a redirect). Otherwise, hmm. Ships have been treated as having a pretty low bound for notability - we're slowly moving towards having an entry for everything of destroyer-size and up that's been in the USN or RN - but as it stands this has no real information on it except to a genealogist, which looks like the source of the information. Is she independently notable? Might be. [1] mentions she was built for Raleigh; [2] suggests the wreck is of archaeological interest; [3] indicates someone wrote a thesis on it. Not a useful page as-is, but potentially encyclopedic, at a guess. Shimgray 03:20, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Lots of ships sink. Gamaliel 18:18, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, not encyclopedic. Wyss 23:10, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, not notable enough to warrant an article. Megan1967 00:36, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Move to Angel Gabriel (ship), disambiguate, and keep. It's important enough on a local (Maine) level to have a historical plaque detailing the wreck. At least one source claims it's the first ship to sink while bringing immigrants from England to America; I haven't managed to verify that yet, but if true, that makes it noteworthy on a larger scale. Shimeru 21:37, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep I can't think of a better place for a ship that sank in 1635 than an encyclopedia. The Steve 07:15, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)
    • Well... traditionally, the seabed... Shimgray 13:13, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. If this does get deleted, it should be replaced with a redirect to the angel Gabriel. -Sean Curtin 07:15, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Move to Angel Gabriel (ship), disambiguate, and keep. Alarm 20:16, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep but definitely move. (It is much more likely that someone who types "Angel Gabriel" is thinking of the archangel than that they were thinking of a historical ship.) I would recommend just rid of the passenger list and making it a stub, though. -Aranel ("Sarah") 20:23, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

end moved discussion


[edit] Sources

I believe the list of passengers was taken from http://members.aol.com/dcurtin1/gene/gabriel.htm

(right down to some odd captialization). A list of facts can not be copyrighted though the presentation can be, but this is still non-authoritative. I replaced the ditto marks with spelled out text and expanded the abbreviation abt to about. Also, there was a line break that didn't belong there (and had been compounded by putting an asterisk before it).


Some of the information on the history of the ship comes from research by nautical archaeologist Warren C. Riess (Angel Gabriel, 2001 http://www.tidewater.net/~kgal/angel.htm ISBN 0-9713438-0-2)