Talk:Angel (Neon Genesis Evangelion)/Archive 1

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Archive 1
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Contents

Dead Sea Scrolls & Angels

My recollection is rusty, but weren't the angles said to be predicted in the Dead Sea Scrolls? I've done some research and all I've been able to find is that the Dead Sea Scrolls were written in Hebrew and often repeat gospels in the bible. I've never found anything connecting the 18 Angels to the Dead Sea Scrolls. In addition, searching the names of the angels turns out nothing but more Evangelion pages.

What my question is: are the Angels really a part of mythology/legends or were they specificially created for the anime? --Feb 15, 2006

There is an actual area of study called angelology. There are a great many angels with names, and some of those were used or adapted for the series. As for the Dead Sea Scrolls, the implication is that SEELE has some of them kept secret. These fictional scrolls are the ones that contain the scenario for Third Impact and have no connection (other than name) to the real Dead Sea Scrolls. EASports 07:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
There's a discussion at the bottom about some of the angel names within the Book of Enoch, and a tiny bit about the real Dead Sea Scrolls, I think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ElijahD (talk • contribs) .

Images of Shito

Should it be deemed useful, it would not be hard for me to screencap images of each Angel, for reference in this section. Indeed, there is a website which already has the images that we would require, and I'm confident that the webmistress wouldn't mind us borrowing them. --Soluzar

Yes, that would be very nice... and while you're at it, could you capture a facial image of every character?

If you can get clear permission to license captures from another website under GFDL, that is good too, of course.

There's a better, close-up picture of Arael out there. I used to have a copy on my computer, but I deleted it when I got Die Sterne or I'd upload it (and I haven't been able to find another copy XP). I'll see if I can photograph the picture in the artbook and link it, in case anyone else wants to try locating the picture online and wants to know what to look for. --Anon 11:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems that the screenshot template was not included on the uploaded images. They were just removed by a bot. They might be recoverable if you add the template and re-install them to the page.
I've taken care of it. EASports

Arael's Music

Anyone going to include Arael's choice of music? Kaworu later hummed it. Hmmm... I can't recall what it was. Obsidian-fox 12:52, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Arael's first background music was "Hallelujah Chorus", and then followed by "Worthy is the Lamb". Both of the music mentioned above came from Messiah oratorio of Handel. Kaworu's music was Ode to Joy from Symphony No. 9 of Ludwig van Beethoven. It was a dominant music throughout the Episode 24 series of Neon Genesis Evangelion - Darth Narutorious 04:44, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Names of Evangelions

The Evas are often referred to in some sectors of the fan community by their Japanese designations. Rather than Unit 01, or Eva-01, the Japanese Seiyuu refer to the first Eva as Shogouki, with Sho meaning 'first' and gouki meaning 'unit'. The primary Evangelions of the story then become, in order, Zerogouki; Shogouki; Nigouki. This sounds rather more pleasant to my ears, than the English designation. Any objections to me using them in my edits? --Soluzar

If you do use them, simply say their Japanese name is <XXXX>

Even the opening sequence shows flashframes of the Evangelions as "Unit-01", "Unit-02", etc. All the promotional material and official artwork and fiction reflects that their official designations were intened to be "Unit-XX". -- Matariel 20:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Size of sections

While I have only done a couple so far, my revised Angel descriptions are somewhat larger than that which existed previously. Does this pose a problem? Would the desire be to keep them as short as possible, or to expand them even further, or just leave as is? --Soluzar

Feel free to expand further... or even create a whole page for each Angel, if desired. That's what Wikipedia is all about!

Please do not actually create a page for each Angel as was suggested by the anonymous commenter; it is much more convenient, organized, and less excessive to have them all on the same page. -℘yrop (talk) 02:47, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
I disagree. Creating a page for each Angel would be okay, so long as a great deal of extra information comes along with it. (e.g. an image, estimated height and weight, special attacks, meaning of the name, episode appearance, concept designer from Gainax, comments from Anno, etc.) That doesn't mean get rid of the overall Angels page, which would be good for discussing the Angels overall, but if you can dig up enough information for a full article about each Angel, then you should put them in their own Article. Obsidian-fox 16:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Shito" vs. "Tenshi"

While the word tenshi approximates more exactly to the Japanese equivalent of the word "angel", shito approximates, as the article's opening says, to "disciple" or, better, "messenger." Messenger is in fact a close equivalent of the Greek term angelos, and it may be this equivalence that the creators of EVA intended, especially taken in the light of the "English" name of the series actually being a series of Greek words. I think this may be relevant to the article; is there any place we could include it? - Anonymous

It's mentioned in the main Neon Genesis Evangelion article; it may be worth bringing it here too. -℘yrop (talk) 04:07, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Question

kinda stupid but had to ask. so, the purpose of angels is trying to reach 'adam' (or lilith) to create 3rd impact and ending the human race? 70.70.209.80 22:10, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Pretty much. Though the motives behind this are still speculated upon. --cheese-cube 12:49, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
My understanding was that each of them wanted the earth for themselves. I took seriously the line that the other Angels were other directions that human life may have taken, and as a result want to be the direction that human life takes. Hackwrench 04:11, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Just like Hackwrench said, Angels were 'other versions' of mankind, and so they wanted to be the dominating species of the planet, just like humans are. When they awoke (with the second impact), they started to struggle to reach Terminal Dogma, leading to a 'destructive Third Impact', exterminating every other Angel species (including humanity). This explains why SEELE and Gendo could only achieve their Third Impact Scenario by killing every other Angels first: to let only mankind alive, thus leading to a 'constructive Third Impact' wich would gather all human life-forms togheter to make them a complete Angel (Human Complementation/Instrumentality Project). ~Nih 18:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Images

I think it would be a really good idea to add an image of each angel to their description. The only problem with this is the licensing issues. Do screen captures from TV series fall under fair use or are they fully copyrighted? --cheese-cube 01:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Gainax released a number of images for use on websites that can be used as long as they're not modified. I'll see if I can dig them up somewhere.zzymyn 01:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Human as the 18th Angel

I think regardless, humans are considered to be the 18th Angel per the information provided by the actually series (in the 2nd movie if I am right). You can't just discount reputible information from the main source even if you may disagree with it.

I'll reinsate it, and we can discuss it here in the future. Don't just make these kinds of huge edits without at least posting something here first.--Juhachi 03:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I can kinda counter his point, too... Touching Lilith does not start an impact, touching Adam does. However, as I recall, Misato said "Maybe humanity is the 18th Angel", not "humanity is the 18th Angel". MythSearcher 03:34, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

As we are adding the word "maybe", I accept re-adding Lilim as the final Angel. - Brittany

In the End of Evangelion, it's directly stated that man is the 18th angel by lilith after being recombined with rei. Misato mentions "maybe" earlier in the series.--Cwiddofer 05:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
If that's the truth, then I'd say just edit the article to take out the word 'maybe' and also to drop off a line about what you just mentioned. Should be sufficient enough to solve this problem.--Juhachi 00:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I guess the Misato mentions line could be taken out if it is not stated by her explicitly. I only have the original script of the TV series and cannot find the referenced line in the movie. MythSearcher 14:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Misato tells Shinji very matter of factly that humans are the 18th Angel, during their car ride together trying to reach Unit-01 in End of Evangelion. -- Matariel 20:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Angel names?

Are the names based on real angels? I don't remember some of those names when I was studying religious history and stories of different judeo-christian sects.

Many places in the article are references to angels from religion. Read the article and you'll find them.--Juhachi 05:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

From the article: The characters of the series are not aware of the angel's names (Though Adam is known by several characters) though Misato does refer to Sachiel by name once, and Kaworu (who is later revealed to be Tabris) refers to Lilith by name). When does Misato refer to Sachiel by name? EASports 05:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm curious about that myself, as I watched the entire series recently and Misato never mentions Sachiel by name that I remember. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 12:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah it seems that I was wrong, dont know how my perception of her lines was different back then. Ill remove it. -- Psi edit 15:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Rei's AT field

Just watched the episode with the 17th Angel on CN today. Since I haven't read the manga, I was wondering something: When they said that the strongest AT field they had ever encountered (another Angel!) was in Central Dogma, I assumed it to be Rei. The AT field of the 17th Angel was already recognized, and she does have the soul of Lilith. And she just sorta appeared there, around the time that the AT field was identified. Is this totally crazy and/or more clear in the manga? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.29.72.186 (talk • contribs) .

I think you're right; Rei projected her AT field in the same manner that Tabris did when Units 01 and 02 began fighting. Also, Rei's AT field is mentioned specifically in End of Evangelion. Since the English translation of the 10th volume of the manga hasn't been released in the US yet, I can't say whether or not the manga makes this more clear. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 22:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Contradicting Name Meanings

Is it me, or do the Angel's name meanings in each paragraph seem to contradict one another. I'll give an example: "The thirteenth Angel, Bardiel, named after Barachiel, the angel that governs lightning and hail." This contradicts: "Bardiel literally means "Humiliated Son of God," referring to being forced to possess an Eva instead of appearing in physical form." I think these should be looked into and disscussed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CyberWrist101 (talk • contribs) .

If you think the article contradicts itself, add a {{contradict}} tag to the top of the article. -- ReyBrujo 00:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Both the identified Angels and their roles within biblical texts and the literal meanings may be significant, as many Angels are named using biblical references, and their nature as "Godlike" is referenced within the show several times. The names of certain Angels in biblical texts may not have the same literal meaning as is the function or purpose of that Angel, as is the case with some of the Angels in Evangelion. Its not a contradiction if the two meanings are clearly differenciated, as is the example you gave. A good example would be Kowaru, as his name literally means "of the seashore", but his Angel name "Tabris" refers to the Angel of free will. His "human" name is fitting because the seashore is the first place Shinji and Kawaru meet, and his "Angel" name is fitting because of him exercising his free will by allowing Shinji to kill him at the end of the episode. -- Matariel 20:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Pics of Adam

I don't know why, but one or both of the thumbnails for the images of Adam will not load for me. I can view the regular sized pics, though, when I click on the links. Anyone else having this problem? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

They show up fine for me. Maybe there's something wrong with your connection or browser. I'm using MSN browser. -- (十八|talk) 04:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
It works for me as well. Juhachi, you should substitute your signature, it is not recommended to transclude signatures. -- ReyBrujo 04:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
O.o I had no idea there was such a thing; glad you told me. *Uses it from now on* -- (十八|talk) 04:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm using IE as well, and on a cable connection. Very strange... Willbyr (talk | contribs) 06:15, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

tense

I noticed that some of the tense items are contradictory, things that happened in the past tense as far as the storyline is concerned (2nd impact and such) should be past tense. Thygard 19:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Gaghiel's Core

When Gaghiel swallows Unit 02 a red sphere is briefly visible at the back of it's mouth, i'd believe this to be the core. (the scene in question is slightly less than 17 minutes into the episode, right after Kaji escapes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bistromatic (talk • contribs) .

You're right; the article should be edited accordingly. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Azrael

Is this info significant enough to warrant inclusion? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

No, there is no reason for that to be in there as it has no serious bearing to the series as a whole and it can also be seen as a form of fan content or fancruft. I'll remove it as such. -- (十八|talk) 03:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Japanese names?

In the first section, the article reads "in the English translation, many of the Angels are named after certain angels in Judeo-Christian lore.", yet there is no mention of what the japanese names are. I had no idea that the Japanese names for the Angels are different (and can't find proof of that through google), and the article dosen't say what they are. So my question is -- is the quoted statement true, and if so, is there anyone who can get the japanese version's names for the angels?

--ThrashedParanoid★ 02:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

There's one episode late in the series where the Angels' names are flashed on the screen. ADV replaced them with English text, but I have a copy that wasn't edited in this way. I don't know Japanese, though, so I'm no help on telling whether they say the same thing. EASports 03:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that, and it says basically the same thing. They're just Katakana representations of the known english names. So really, it's more that the Angels are named after certain Angels in Judeo-Christian lore, regardless of language. :) -JC 07:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Sachiel's variant?

In Super Robot Wars Alpha after Sachiel was destroyed by Londo Bell's super robot, it instantly resurrect but with another of it's "mask" grow on chest area. I just wonder if this variant of Sachiel was ever seen elsewhere? L-Zwei 02:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The same thing happened in NGE; was Sachiel's new mask different than the one it regrew in NGE? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 04:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Can't remember exactly. L-Zwei 06:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The original mask have a long beak like sharp point, the new one seems to be pretty much the same, but not fully grown out of the body and have a shorter beak. I bought two model sets to built both. Also, Sachiel seems to be the only angel that blinked (while intercepting a missile) before being hit by the N2 bomb. ref: here. please click on other pictures to see more details. MythSearcher 13:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I can't really see any difference between Sachiel's new mask and his old one. The only possibly and logical difference would be the fact that Sachiel's old mask was more worn out due to its possible age differerences or traits, and that its new mask is just plain vanilla construction paper color. If you put more thought into it, however, you'll find out that Sachiel's new mask has larger eye holes, meaning it probably replaced its head or something for its new head, possibly. The size of its visual contractors have probably gone an up or two.

ChronoPika 21:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)