Talk:Anfield

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Good article Anfield has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
To-do list for Anfield: edit · history · watch · refresh

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  • Copyedit: needed on whole article
  • Verify: Find extra sources for history section
  • Expand: Transport section
  • Disambiguation: Explain "segregation" in the stadium
  • Update: Stanley Park information when more becomes available

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Contents

[edit] older entries

I've rewritten this to apply just to the stadium, as all but one of the links to here refer to the stadium rather than the district. sjorford 10:04, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Spion Kop, Which Ground First?

What verifiable evidence do we have for the claim that the terrace "at Sheffield was named 'the Kop' first"? It's interesting, since some Arsenal fans contend that their old Manor Ground [1] was the first to have a Kop, albeit unofficially. Ste B 02:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The Manor Ground built in 1904, a few years before the orignal Kop at Anfield (). Although the Arsenal one was built first, it was the huge earth bang at Anfield that reminded local journalist Ernast Edwards (The Liverpool ECHO) of the Spion Kop in South Africa. He often referred to The Kop in his articles this caught on with the fans and then eventually the club.
I can see how the confusion exists with the Manor Ground Kop being built a few years earlier but the Ernast Edwards story has always been the most widely accepted. It's also importent to remember the majority of men who died at The Battle of Spion Kop where from Lancashire regiments. (Liverpool was part of Lancashire at the time of the battle)
One last thing, the Anfield Kop wasn't like other 3 stands, it was a huge bank of earth, very simlier to the real Spion Kop.

82.42.24.92 03:56, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pitch Dimensions

I was wondering whether anyone had a good source for pitch dimensions? I only ask ask the width has just been changed from 79 m to 69 m, without a reference. aLii 14:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Not sure !!!
  • [2] = 110 x 75 yards
  • [3] = 101 x 79 yards
  • [4] = 101 m x 68m
  • [5] = 111 x 74 yards

and I can't find anything on the official site !!! I guess its maybe worth a phone call to the ground !!!! DavidHumphreysSPEAK TO MEABOUTTHE THINGS I MESSED UP 14:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who changed it, but I've just measured the width using Google Earth, and it seems that the 69m is more accurate. I don't know how accurate the measurement is; I'm not sure whether it counts as a source or original research. KeithD 16:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Lol! Personally I think it'd be good for someone to look it up on Football Manager. They know their stats... aLii 20:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Come on, come on, come on Surely this is a basic fact that someone here should know !!!!!! I don't, coz I don't really care !!! But, fact is fact and it should really be 100% accurate ... someone please get yer measuring tape out !!!

DavidHumphreysSPEAK TO MEABOUTTHE THINGS I MESSED UP 02:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've just sent an email to the official site, see: http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2006/aug/17/N153191060817-1118.htm The chances are they'll actually put the answer on the website, making it verifiable. KeithD 18:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
And I've just found http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:goY7spMcmBkJ:www.liverpoolfc.tv/reducate/activities/anfield_measurements_internet.xls+anfield+pitch+dimensions+site:www.liverpoolfc.tv&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera is from the official site, and says 110x74 yards. It's part of a maths worksheet, but it's the best source we have, so I'll update the article accordingly. KeithD 18:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Quote: it is the home of Liverpool F.C - England's most successful club, having won the English Premier League 18 times and the European Champions' Club Cup a total of 5 times.

Incorrect. As far as I'm aware, Liverpool have never won the English Premier League. Pedantic, I know, but still. The preceding comment contained scenes of a violent or sexual nature, and should not have been viewed by young children. L.J.SkinnerWOT?|CONTRIBS 17:52, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, it is correct. Read the article. --Iriseyes 13:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

Unfortunately, this article is in some disrepair. It needs a cleanup, so I tagged it.

--Iriseyes 13:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

This article is in serious need of some work. It's obviously been tapped away at by fans and is, in places, awful.

[edit] Kicking towards the Kop

It is stated that on "most occasions" Liverpool play towards the Kop in the second half. Is there any proof of this? I know that it is the home side's preference but surely it depends on who wins the toss and opposing teams would probably try to negate this supposed advantage. Therefore it should be roughly 50-50 unless someone has detailed statistics. Barfbagger 19:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


No proof but I'm a season ticket holder on The Kop and have been for many years. It's very rare that we kick away from the kop in the second half, probably happens around 5 times a season. As the players come out they take position at The Kop end of the field, as though they're going to be kicking away from The Kop. If the opposing captain wins the toss and chooses against our tradition, it's greeted by huge booing from us.

More often than not the opposing team when they win the toss will choose to attack The Kop in first half. This could be because they also wish to attack their fans in the second half, who are situated opposite The Kop. It could be for convenience, attacking the opposite end would mean all the players having to swap sides. It could just be them respecting our tradition. 77.97.106.78

I'll take your word for it. Unfortunately I no longer live close enough to have a season ticket. Although I have to take your supposition of "them respecting our tradition" with a large dose of salt. Barfbagger 21:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new Interwiki

[[ru:Энфилд Роуд]]. Manecke 16:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My Anfield Stadium Seating Outline

I created this. If it is found useful, I'll insert it in article.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anfield_Outline_df2k2.png


Image:Anfield Outline df2k2.png —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Df2k2 (talk • contribs) 17:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

No Logo to prevent copyright conflicts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Liverpool_outline2_df2k2.png

Image:Liverpool outline2 df2k2.png

If I edit the image I will increase the size of the stand names, but until then, I guess look at the 500px preview. :)


I like it, and something similar would definitely be useful for this page. My only slight worry is whether an image with the Liverpool badge can be used in such a way? Isn't it a copyrighted logo or something? Image:Liverpool FC logo.png seems to claim that it is. aLii 17:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Nice, fast work there! One final request, could you increase the size of the stand names somewhere in the region of 100-200%? Just so that they can be read easily at that 300px size. :) aLii 18:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spion Kop, Lack of toilets

Why no mention of the habit of some kopites, on the old kop, of urinating down a rolled up newspaper often onto the legs of fellow supporters? (It has been said that the smell was quite repulsive)

[edit] History

With regards to the September 8 edit by the user Operating. I think, as Everton were the original tenants of Anfield, and the information was accurate, that it should be reverted to include that section. It certainly shouldn't be deemed vandalism. Moethesleaze 11:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

By all means mention Everton as the original tenants. That is one sentence. There was an essay about Everton and no mention of LFC, it shouldn't be restored. Operating 11:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The page is about the ground - Anfield, not specifically its current tenants Liverpool. The problem with the paragraph was that it finished with the involvement of Everton and should have continued to the early history of LFC in the ground Moethesleaze 13:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Everton were tenants for a few years IIRC, and LFC for the next 90. The Everton years are notable, however there was too much content, much of it irrelevant and unecyclopedic and the article was unbalanced with no mention of the 90 years of LFC tenancy. The Everton content as it was needs copy editing down to the bare bones before restoring, something i'm not prepared to do. Operating 13:44, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Everton were the first tennantes at Anfield. That should be included in the article. I can't see any reason not to. Obviously, it's about Anfield Road, the stadium, but who uses it is important. I question the judgement to those who disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.48.62.17 (talk) 23:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup from vandalism

I think a revert back to September 1st approx is necessary after the recent vandalism. Comparing versions for instance reveals that the construction cost is missing from the most recent edit. Also the edit from "most successful club" to "one of the most successful clubs" has persisted. I don't think its in dispute that Liverpool are historically the most successful club, so surely the former should be used. Moethesleaze 16:05, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needed Fix

Someone needs to fix the average attendances —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.250.189 (talk) 16:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is the Anfield outline up-to-date?

With the recent creation/planned creation of a "Block 1892" (mentioned by Tom Hicks at one point, but I haven't got a source handy) for the more vocal fans/season ticket holders, does anyone know a) Has this plan actually happened? and b) was the relevant block actually renamed to Block 1892? If so, the outline ought to be amended to reflect this, IMO. Obviously, I can't do this as I'm not sure whether it happened, or which block was used —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenifh (talk • contribs) 21:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable external link?

Is anfield.com really notable enough to be included in the external links? You can count the most members online at once on one hand! Michael Wincott (talk) 17:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Removed link as total membership of forum is 7! Seems odd to link to something so low-key. Michael Wincott (talk) 19:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Construction cost

This article states that Anfield was built in 1884 - the constrution cost reads: £555,099. That amount of money would have bought the whole of Lancashire, with enough change left over to then build the ground. It may be a good idea to find out how much it cost Everton to build, and then the price of further redevolpments. I know this may seem slightly pedantic, but the way it stands at present, is not really accurate. Thanks. 'Arry Boy (talk) 19:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah well, it seems that Anfield was the most expensive ground constructed in the history of football. Will someone please contact the Guinness book of records? 'Arry Boy (talk) 16:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Page moves

Anyone thinking of moving this article to a disambiguating name (e.g. Anfield Stadium) is strongly advised to read WP:COMMONNAME and also the current discussion at WT:FOOTY. --Dweller (talk) 13:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

I'll be attempting to review this article for GA status, and for now I'll just list the things which stand out at the moment that I feel might need some fixing. Once satisfied I'll pass or fail it, or possibly put it on hold if there are any final issues. This is a bit long, but I figure most of these are minor fixes.

  • The stadium has been the home of Liverpool F.C. since the club's formation in 1892 and was the home of Everton F.C. until 1892, when they left following a rent dispute. - Although I know that the stadium is clearly known more for its association with Liverpool, would it not make sense to put this sentence in chronological order instead? Also, no mention is made of when the stadium was actually first built.
Done NapHit (talk) 16:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • The information box features UEFA with four stars, seemingly for the stadium's 4-star rating. However, there is no real explanation offered in the information box unless one reads the full text. Maybe include the word rating, or link to UEFA Stadia List rather than just UEFA?
Included link to UEFA Stadia List NapHit (talk) 16:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • It is a UEFA 4-star rated stadium, and has hosted numerous international matches at senior level, including England fixtures, the ground was also used during Euro 96 to host matches. - I think you have two sentences accidentally stuck together here? Also, is it supposed to be the senior level, or are you referring to something specific? Also, I must admit that I am writing this from an American point of view (but have been involved with "soccer" for many years), so I must admit my confusion with what you are implying with England fixtures.
Senior level simply refers to the highest level of international football and England fixtures refers to the internationl matches England have some of which have been played at Anfield, I'll try to change it to make it more accomodating
  • Although the memorial to Hillsborough is notable, I'm not sure if it belongs in the lead, or in the section it is currently placed. Possibly integrate it into an explanation of why the stadium was converted to an all-seater? Also, a year should be added for the conversion, I believe.
Move alongside the Shankly Gates section, as it was not integral to why the stadium was converted into a an all-seater stadium
  • Any citation on the reasoning behind Everton's leaving?
Added
  • I think the fact that Houldering owned Everton should be noted, otherwise Orwell's friendship with him seems a bit useless to bring up.
Done
  • I'm also a bit confused about Houldering's ownership of Anfield. He owned Everton, but your article states that Orrell owned the stadium. Houlding was left with an empty stadium, and decided to form a new club to occupy it. therefore makes no sense, as Houlding's team left, so wouldn't Orrell be the one with an empty field? I assume that Houlding does actually own the stadium, and that this needs to be clarified and expanded.
Clarified
  • Liverpool Association Football Club should link to Liverpool F.C. in the opening paragraph of the history.
Linked
  • Liverpool's first league match at Anfield was played on September 9, 1893 against Lincoln City, with Liverpool winning 4–0 in front of 5,000 spectators. - Is there a specific league you can link to?
Done
  • It was constructed on the site of the present Main Stand and remained until 1973, although many changes were made to it over the years. - I think this may be getting ahead of yourself a bit. You jump from 1865 to 1973 then back to 1903. You cover the 1973 alterations later, so there's no need to mention this twice.
Rectified
  • The stand proved to be a landmark in English football. - I know this is cited, but can you include any specific reason why?
Removed this
  • The Kop, by banking I get the feeling of an earthen bank, but later it is mentioned that it featured seating. Again, possibly a word usage I'm not used to, but wouldn't "stands" or "seating" be a better use than "banking"?
Changed to stands
  • Many stadiums in England had Kops - Specify to say that many stadiums have seatings/areas named after Spion Kop (or possibly named after Anfield's Kops?)
Specified
  • It remained virtually unaltered until 1994, when it was turned into an all-seater stand following the Taylor Report. - Again, skipping around on dates.
Removed this bit
  • Any specific reason why the mast of the Great Eastern was brought to the stadium? Also, link Rock Ferry.
  • Maybe expand a description of the Shankly Gates, including specifying that he was the manager of Liverpool, and the inscription on top?
  • In 1989 after the Hillsborough disaster, the Taylor Report stated that all grounds in the country would be converted into all-seater grounds. - From my understanding of the report, it was merely a recommendation. The requirement that stadiums convert came later through government/sanctioning body mandates. You might want to include a very brief background of why the all-seater layout was necessary in response to the Hillsborough disaster.
Done
  • In 1992, a second tier was added to the Kemlyn Road stand, turning it into a huge double decker stand, to include executive boxes, function suites as well as 11,000 seats. - Bit POV with the huge. Also, were the 11,000 seats including the boxes and suites, or just standard seats?
Clarified this
  • but two old ladies living in Kemlyn Road refused to move out of their house and the plans were put on hold - Cite?
Cited
  • Investigations found that the frequency of the construction was not high enough - Not sure what this means?
Neither do I so I've removed it
  • You seem to switch back and forth between capitalizing the use of the word Stand. If the name is Centenery Stand, it should be capitalized in all places where the two words are used together. It the proper name is simply Centenery, then stand should never be capitalized.
Gone with capitalisation for all usages
  • The Anfield Road stand is used to house the away fans during match-day, the stand was once a simple single-tier stand, with multi-coloured seating seats. - Run-on.

Fixed

  • A lot of the Structure section seems to simply repeat the dates used in the History section. There's no need to repeat the dates a second time.
Sorted this
  • There are 36 spaces available for the visually impaired, the seats are situated in the paddock area of the Main stand, with space for one personal assistant. - A bit of an odd sentence. which are seems better than the seats.
Fixed
  • Again, the history of the Gates and Memorials doesn't need to be covered again. Simply their location a physical description are probably all that is necessary.
Done
  • Original plans to replace Anfield were initiated by Liverpool in May 2002.[11] At that time the proposed capacity was 55,000, but it was later revised to 61,000, with 1,000 seats given for segregation. The club had first announced its intention of building a new stadium 18 months earlier, with the original plan as a 70,000 seat stadium which would cost around £200 million and would be ready for the 2004–05 season. - So who actually started the plans to replace Anfield? Liverpool (I assume you mean the government) or Liverpool F.C.? The addition of 18 months earlier makes it all very confusing.
Removed the confusing 18 months
  • Liverpool were granted planning permission to build a new stadium on July 30, 2004, - Permission was granted on July 30 or building was started July 30?
Permission was granted, I hope I've clarifie this in my edit
  • Knocked down - I think there could be a better word or words used here.
  • The last international to be hosted at Anfield was England's 2–1 victory over Uruguay on March 1, 2006. - Is there no way another international match could be played at Anfield, or is this simply the most recent?
it's unlikely another one will be held there, but no=ones knows so I've changed it to most recent
  • Professional tennis was played at Anfield on boards on the pitch, with the US Open champion, Bill Tilden and Wimbledon champion, Fred Perry entertaining the crowds. - Is this implying it was an exhibition match?
adde exhibition match
  • The highest attendance recorded at Anfield is 61,905 for a match against Wolverhampton Wanderers in the FA Cup fifth round on February 2, 1952. Since Anfield has been used for football matches other than those by Liverpool, it'd help to specify both teams, rather than just the one.
Seeing as this the highest attendance ever recorded at te ground, I see no need to include any of Everton's attendances
  • Could there be anything added about supporters who attend matches who do not use the train system? I would assume that, although there may not be that many of them, that there would have to be some means besides this, especially with no parking at the stadium.
Not really, It's about the supporters, this section is about the acessibility of the stadium in relation to public transport
  • The chart of stadium attendance is difficult to read, even at its large size. I think it might be possible to not only crop out some segments, but also to make the text larger in some regions.
Seeing as I didn't produce any changes are going to be hard especially since I have no software to change it with
  • The heading can be eliminated as it merely replicates what is already in the thumbnail description.
  • Since the stadium attendance has never dipped below 30000, why not simply show the left side between 20000 and 50000?
  • Although I understand your reasoning for listing every individual season, maye it would be better to simply list every 5 seasons or so, so that you can make the text larger and more readable. You can keep the individual points on the chart and simply use marks on the X axis for each individual year, but simply not label each individual year.
In fact only every two seasons are included, but not sure if this changes anything

Hopefully this can all be squared away easily, and I can give the article my final review. I have this article on my watch list, so feel free to respond here and check off items you have completed. The359 (talk) 21:00, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok I've dealt with your comments, hopefully everything is to your liking, I wait in anticipation of your final review :) NapHit (talk) 21:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, I think most everything has been covered. No worries on the chart, it's not a glaring problem, but one that can hopefully be fixed later.
There is one more issue that I believe needs fixing before you're there, and it's partially my fault because I did not specify correctly what I was looking for. Mostly, the Structures and Facilities section still seems a bit off to me. A lot of it seems to cover the history of each of the four stands, most of which was already discussed in the history section. I think that the Structures and Facilities section should really just discuss the stands as they are now.
A few other things I think could stand to be added. For instance, there is almost no description of the pitch. Is there anything unique about it? I know that there are varying guidelines for pitch dimensions, so what are the dimensions at Anfield? How far are the stands from the pitch? How about the physical dimensions of the stadium itself? Land area covered and such things. I know some of these statistics may be difficult to find, so I do not expect them all to be covered, but I think that they might be useful in filling this section in place of the history elements that do not belong.
Once this is covered, it'll pass. All the other sections are alright. The359 (talk) 22:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Ok I've aded details about the pitch, what I've got is about as much asI can find so I'm sorry if doesn't match your demads, but I think it's more than enough. Cheers NapHit (talk) 18:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
No worries, I wasn't expecting everything to be found, I just figured a little more was needed for those that wanted something other than seating capacity. The359 (talk) 18:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Final review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    No noticeable problems with the writing.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    Everything is properly sourced, no debatable facts uncited.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    Covers everything necessary for a stadium, without straying much unless necessary for a description.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
    No POV problems
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
    No disputes
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    All images are useful and without copyright problems.
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Good job, that's everything covered in my eyes. I'll update all the templates and lists as necessary. The359 (talk) 18:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit done/Transport section

I've just carried out my own copyedit of the article, with additional help from User:Finetooth, and I think all that needs improving now is the article's flow - an common problem given the way wikis work. Also, in the transport section, can mention be made of bus links to Anfield, i know there's at least one because i've taken it myself. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 00:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC) Oh and please could you explain the difference between "The Kop", "The Spion Kop" and "The Kop Grandstand" if any. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 02:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)