Talk:Andrew Dice Clay

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[edit] lifetime ban

I put quotation marks on "lifetime ban" because I clearly recall seeing Dice on MTV in at least one subsequent appearance with David Spade. Spade played his trademark receptionist character who refused to allow Dice into the MTV Video Music Awards, citing the "lifetime ban." However, by appearing on the network the "lifetime ban" was clearly not taken very seriously. I suspect he has appeared in other segments but that's the only one I've ever seen. --Feitclub 22:11, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

There's also nothing but a parting mention in here about the incident in question, and the page 'Notable incidents on the MTV awards' or some such also lacks much information. Someone should put some more information about that in here; considering I only heard of Andrew Dice Clay today (and am curious about the incident), I'm not the one best suited to do it. PolarisSLBM 02:51, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

The lifetime ban seems like it was a publicity stunt more than anything else 198.6.46.11 15:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Catskills influences

The article de-emphasizes Clay's links with traditional Jewish-American comedians who came out of the Catskills circuit, such as Rodney Dangerfield and Buddy Hackett, many of whom were quite obscene in their live performances. Clay's debt to this tradition is rather clear ; rather than a transgressive comedian like Kinison or Hicks, Clay's style of comedy was just a more extreme form of conventional stand-up styles of the sort mentioned above. Prairie Dog

If this is important or notable information then you should be able to find numerous secondary sources that all make the claim. When you do find those sources, feel free to add the information to the article. Vivaldi (talk) 07:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nursery Rhymes

There's been some back and forth editing on the exact wording of Dice's Mother Goose routines, which is somewhat futile, given that different performances and recordings have slightly different wordings. I just reverted some edits based on a quick listen of the first "Mother Goose" track from his first album, thinking that any later performances would be derivitave of that work.

Saying that, I'm not sure if the rhymes even belong in this article, as opposed to another article. And I'm not sure they belong on Wikipedia at all, given that they are copyrighted work, and it would be akin to posting lyrics to a copyrighted song. But, to about 99% of the people out there, these rhymes are the only identifiable part of his career, so maybe they should stay. I'm open to discussion on this, although I'm not sure anyone else cares that much. Jkonrath 15:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I think a few should be put back in as examples, could be justified under fair use and a significant contribution to the article. Others are at the rotten.com external and wikiquote links. 65.33.156.96 04:25, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I say we should delete most of them from the article. It really disrupts the reading of the article. It is sort of like "Prose, prose prose, obscene rhymes, rhymes, rhymes, rhymes, god these rhymes just keep going on ARRGH! Prose prose prose prose..." If we take all but 2 or 3, it will better maintain the flow of the article. --THollan 02:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree

I missed this note and had a font problem. Help! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Editingfiend (talk • contribs) 06:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

The content of his jokes are copyrighted works and cannot be quoted in their entirety on Wikipedia. It is not fair use to tell the entire joke. It is more than sufficient to advise people that "Mother Goose" and "Little Boy Blue" were two examples of his dirty nursery rhymes. There is no need to repeat their full content on Wikipedia. Vivaldi (talk) 07:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nursery Rhymes/Questionable Article Linking

In the nursery rhymes section, the word "dumper" links to the rectums article, and the word "crack" links to the vagina one. Glad to see that this place is turning into Encyclopedia Dramatica, keep up the good work.

I cleaned it up. Foday 07:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peak of popularity

I was disappointed to see this article discussing his shortcomings without really mentioning how popular he was at his peak. Its mentioned only in passing that he sold out Madison Garden three times, and that comes in a sentence that calls him a hack and attributes his success to Opie and Anthony. At his peak, Clay reached heights that no comedian before or after has reached.

This article criticizes his comic style and documents his failures in great detail, but it's failure to document his successes leaves us with an incomplete and misleading entry. Anson2995 22:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

"At his peak, Clay reached heights that no comedian before or after has reached." Seriously? Clay is that you? 198.6.46.11 15:18, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I am not Clay, no. You'll note that this section is called "peak of popularity" not "peak of artistic craft." There's no denying that at his peak, Clay was drawing huge crowds -- much larger than typical for a standup act. He sold out Madison Square Garden, which no comic had ever done before, and he did it for three straight shows. Anson2995 16:18, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't mind the criticism as long as it is properly sourced and it is in proper proportion to its importance and notability. Negative information in biographies that is not sourced "must be removed immediately". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vivaldi (talk • contribs) 07:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Opie & Anthony

I have to agree. Despite their subsequent falling out with eachother, Dice still owes a great deal to the support of Opie & Anthony during the last decade. They certainly deserve a mention for this in the main article.--24.47.145.73 17:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Taken care of. I think I kept it pretty fair. Payneos 05:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another movie Clay starred in

Andrew Dice Clay also starred in a movie called Brain Smasher: A Love Story. If someone wants to research it and add it to the article page...

[edit] NPOV

I cleaned up some of the commentary type POV. The comparison to Bruce, Kinison, and Hicks as social and political commentary is a POV.

Removed the word offensive from "offensive racist comments". This is POV as Clay's fans may not find it offensive but others will...POV.

After removing a couple POV entries, the article looks well balanced. Since there hasn't been any discussion about the NPOV tag and why it was added, I have removed the tag since the NPOV entries have been removed.I already forgot 16:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV Removal

I removed this text from the commercial failure section because it adds no new information and is obviously biased: "We also are subjected to a rant concerning the difficulty of spreading padded butter at a resturant. Dice perhaps gets his raciest, however, in the opening few minutes, when he vividly describes the process of cunt farting for the audience." First of all, we were not "subjected" to anything. Second, by calling it a rant, it makes him seem like a moron. Third, who gets to decide when he was raciest? Fourth, there has to be a better way to put it than to say cunt farting. shadowbeckoner

All negative information that is unsupported by reliable secondary sources needs to be removed. This article was very juvenile. Vivaldi (talk) 07:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Early stand-up

I was surprised to see it suggested that ADC began stand-up after Crime Story, in the late 1980s. I remember him appearing at the Comedy Store just south of Westwood (by UCLA) in the late 1970s or early 1980s, with exactly the same act, smoking the cigarette and the whole bit. I remember seeing him, myself, one night, on the bill with Yakov Smirnoff, a walk-on from Rich Hall, and the only guy to get any real laughs that night, the closer, the screamer, Sam Kinnison. Hall was grindingly boring. Smirnoff got a few giggles about how it was 'in Russia'. And ADC got barely even that. I personally didn't get his act, at the time. I wasn't laughing, either. By contrast, Kinnison's exasperated ranting about his wife, sort of Henny Youngman or Rodney Dangerfield on speed, to the point where he himself was on the floor had people almost rolling in the aisles, themselves; an appropriate cliche seeing him live.

If you can correct the information and provide sources for your claims then feel free to improve the article! Vivaldi (talk) 07:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm removing a line

"While doing a phone in to the Brother Weeze Show, to promote his new show, Dice said, "when he has a problem with someone, he takes care of business face to face." Then Opie from the Opie and Anthony Show comes on the phone to confront Dice, and Dice hangs up like a little girl."

I think we can all agree this should be removed... Not only of it's POV, but also because it's mentioned earlier, and in a non-pov way. (Gamingtrevor) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.185.131.54 (talk) 18:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

I also removed this line. Claims that "he hung up like a little girl" aren't worthy of an encyclopedia. First of all, none of this is attributed to a verifiable source. Secondly, even it were, it isn't a significant or notable event that one person hangs up the phone on another. Vivaldi (talk) 07:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV II

For the following lines:"it was often hard for the general public to differentiate between the persona and the actual person because so many people were cinched-up morons." and "This reputation he got was grossly unfair and PC pussies should ashamed of trying to tell everyone how to act. And they're supposed to be the tolerant ones. Puhlease." Not gonna change it 'cause I don't care enough to get in an edit war over it. Scottanon 04:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

If you care enough to write on the discussion page then you should care enough to correct the main article. The lines you quoted demonstrate vandalism. They don't belong in an encyclopedia. I removed them along with tons of other claims in this article that were uncited. WP:BIO requires a higher standard. Vivaldi (talk) 07:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Links

I removed the sections with links to other pages. One of the refereneces (Mike Hunt), was just vandalism. The link to Artie Lange isn't really relevant since the content about the Dice/Lange feud was removed. The link to Opie and Anthony isn't needed since it already appears earlier in the article. And as an aside, I think this article benefits greatly by omitting all of the detailed commentary on "feuds" between Dice and various radio hosts. It's not notable and frankly a rather routine part of the radio business. Play-by-play accounts of those sorts of thing are fun for fansites, but they only serve to clutter an article like this one. Anson2995 01:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brother Wease and other appearances

I removed the content about Dice's appearance on the Brother Wease show and his "confrontation" with Opie and Anthony. It appeared here earlier and we deleted it once already. It's really not necessary to include a whole section everytime somebody appears on a radio show. These play-by-play accounts of feuds between radio personalities are more suitable for a fan sit than an encyclopedia article. If we start to include this stuff it's going to take over the article. Anson2995 21:39, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Well then can I at least include the MP3 in the External links section? They call me Mr. Pibb 21:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Payneos undid my edits with this comment: "Added back in both sections. Only reason given against the sections was Fancruft without calling it that, which is not offical Wiki policy." Actually, what I said above (and on two different occasions) was that these events were not notable, and thus unworthy of being included. I also don;t think it makes sense to have entries on a couple of guest appearances (on an internet show and a non-syndicated small market radio show) take up more space than we give to describing his entire career as a stand up. I don't want to get into an edit war, but if you really feel that those things belong here, let's please have some discussion of why. Anson2995 17:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't think that non-notable appearances on various shows should be included here. We don't need play-by-plays of shock-jock versus comedian in the encyclopedia.....UNLESS you can find numerous secondary sources that say that the event is somehow notable or important. For example, if the New York Times and Washington Post mention the feud and explain how it is somehow important and notable, then go ahead and put it in the article and cite your sources. Just repeating the radio show comments is not useful. We discourage using primary sources on Wikipedia, because it leads to editors performing original research and perhaps only including those bits of a long show that they feel promote their own point of view. I'm not a fan of Andrew Clay by any means, but I will make sure that we follow the guidelines and policies of Wikipedia regarding biographies of living people. Vivaldi (talk) 05:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the vh1 show

is it me or does that last section feel like it was written by someone at vh1? Ashburn247 (talk) 08:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Garbage

This "article" is complete garbage. Totally biased, POV, fan based, unsourced, badly-written crap.