Talk:Andrew Cunanan

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Contents 1 Wrong 2 Motive? 3 Sealand passport 4 Testerone doesn't cause 'homicidal rages'. 5 Cell Phone 6 What is the relevancy of his ethnicity? 7 Not a serial killer 8 Guilty?

[edit] Wrong

The FBI were looking for someone in drag because of a rumour not because they assumed all gay men were transvestites.

Agreed, this section's strange. The FBI is accused of bungling by stereotyping but the article says he had little history of transvestism. A little history would be enough for the FBI to consider it not improbably that a wanted killer could attempt this disguise. Seeing as no source is given I'd say this should be reworked or stricken.

I agree. I haven't been able to get my cousin (who's rather high up in the FBI) to confirm nor deny this. Sad, I know. :) Ryanjcole 09:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motive?

Does anyone know why he committed these murders?

This is unproven but I have heard he had a mental break after one of his relationships ended. ShadowWriter 03:25, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sealand passport

The sealand article says he had a Sealand passport. --Gbleem 04:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Where? If it ever was there, it was removed. You cannot site another Wiki entry as a source, and I seriously doubt that this micronation, which is no more than an abandoned British naval platform off the coast of England, has any capacity to make any passports- nor would it get anyone past customs, as it is not recognized as a sovereign state by any nation.

Sealand has made passports and illegal counterfeits were well known. Cunanan's possession of one has nothing to do with whether or not it would get anyone past customs as the fact is he had one counterfeit or otherwise

The Sealand website says:

Fake Sealand Passports

In 1997, forged passports of the Principality of Sealand started turning up all around the world.

Fake Sealand passports were used by criminals to open bank accounts or to travel under false names. Passports seized in a Slovenian caper had entry and exit stamps from at least 10 countries, including Romania, Bulgaria, Iraq, Iran and Libya. Almost five thousand forged Sealand passports were sold at around £ 1,000 each to Hong Kong citizens before the handover to China. Torsten Reineck, on whose houseboat Andrew Cunanan committed suicide after the murder of famous fashion designer Gianni Versace, carried a Sealand passport. Reineck drove around Beverly Hills in a car with Sealand “diplomatic plates”.

Prince Roy stated that these passports were not issued by the Principality of Sealand. “Each and every country in the world has problems like this. The world is awash with forged passports. I’m just angry they’re faking mine and using them for criminal purposes.”

The Royal Family revoked all Sealand Passports

http://www.sealandnews.com/history/

So I think it was a mistake that Cunnan himself had a passport. I'm deleting this until we find a source that says otherwise. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Testerone doesn't cause 'homicidal rages'.

This is an unscientific and baseless part of the article.

[edit] Cell Phone

I don't have a reference here, but wasn't this one of the frst cases when law enforcement used a cell phone signal to track a suspect's movements?

RDV 26March2007

Technology just wasn't capable of tracking closer than 10-15 miles. They could ID a phone on a grid but not much better. Ryanjcole (talk) 18:57, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is the relevancy of his ethnicity?

His mixture of ethnicity's is very American common bringing in the curious "everyman" theme that is so quintessentially American. This has intrigue for readers who, just as the experts, are trying to puzzle out just what drove this person to do what he did. Astute readers are going to want to sift every clue available to them as their desire to correctly understand his motives, his personality drives their efforts. To simply gloss over and erase out information to make him appear ethnically neutral would be both dishonest and a disservice to readers putting in some real effort to understand him. Trying to understand a serial killer, and the social fabric they navigate through is complex as it gets and any clues are appreciated. 209.101.236.168 00:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it relevant to mention he was of Italian and Filipino descent? He was born in California which makes him American.Rustbelt 17:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

His looks were such that he tended to blend in everywhere and anywhere, so yes, it is relevant. Speciate 18:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

However, feel free to move that information deeper into the article. Speciate 18:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand how readers are supposed to draw the conclusion that being of Italian/ Filipino descent makes it easier to blend in. The way the information is presented seems to form an impression that his ethnicity had something to do with his criminal actions. My conclusion is that it is irrelevant and should be deleted.Rustbelt 14:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

No, it made it easier for him to blend in in Miami. Speciate 21:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The following section, "Since he was of mixed race (his mother was white, and his father, Filipino), he blended in well in the diverse Miami Beach scene", all looks to me like original research. Are there any references to support that this is a published conclusion? Parsival74 (talk) 21:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I don't mean the part about his parents ethnicity in and of itself (that is documented), I'm referring to the idea that it had some special advantage which helped him fit in. From my readings on this subject his ability to fit into the Miami scene was due to his gay lifestyle more than any other factor. Parsival74 (talk) 21:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

As there are no citations supporting this, and I can't even find a hint of a suggestion to support the conclusion I am deleting the sentence. Parsival74 (talk) 19:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not a serial killer

Andrew Cunanan was not a serial killer, he was a spree killer. The main difference between the two being that serial killers commit their murders over a very long period of time with the intervals between killings generally becoming shorter as time goes on. Cunanan committed his murders over a span of a couple of weeks. By definition the man is a spree killer.

Great. Can we have a wikipedia article that defines "spree killer", since we have a definition, but dead links in the article. 64.252.5.119 (talk) 23:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

This is incorrect, according to the Wikipedia article Serial killer a serial killer is defined as "someone who murders two (some experts say three) or more people in two or more separate events over a period of time", a definition which is referenced. Similarly at the article Spree killer the definition given is "defines a spree killing as "killings at two or more locations with almost no time break between murders."" It seems to me that in order to be consistent with both of these articles that Cunanan should be classed as a serial killer. Parsival74 (talk) 20:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

This isn't the first time people have changed the article back and forth between "spree" and "serial", and I've seen other references to disagreements over which term applies (e.g., Gary Indiana in talking about his Cunanan book). I'd suggest that the text of the article reflect this uncertainty, rather than simply coming down on one side or the other. SethTisue (talk) 05:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I noted a few ambiguous comments on various web pages regarding Cunanan's status, however until someone provides solid citations to the contrary it seems sensible to classify him within the definitions provided by the relevant articles on Wikipedia. I think part of the confusion is that there is a difference between 'going on a killing spree' and being classified officially as a spree killer. Unfortunately serial killers are not my particular area of interest and so my resources to fully flesh out this article are insufficient, if you have good resources maybe you could edit the article to reflect the confusion that exists? Also does anyone know what the FBI's official classification of Cunanan was? Their categorisation would be the most definitive to my mind. Parsival74 (talk) 18:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guilty?

Is it appropriate to baldly state that this man murdered the five people in question, seeing that he was never tried and convicted? Should it not be stated as an accusation, along with the (OK, very compelling) evidence?

Yes, in the event that a perpetrator dies before being brought before a court then the determination of a coroners report would be considered sufficient in cases such as these. Parsival74 (talk) 20:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)