Talk:Andre Marrou

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[edit] POV?

There are literally tens of thousands of people holding political office in the United States at any given time. Assuming that most have four year terms (yeah, I know, a big oversimplification, but no harm here), we can easily assume that hundreds of thousands—if not millions—in history have held office. And how many of these have been Libertarians? Is the total even up to 100 yet? So if Marrou is one of a few dozen Libertarians out of possibly millions of other parties' members who has been elected in our history, it seems reasonable to characterize Marrou as "One of the few people to ever be elected to any office at all as a Libertarian candidate". What on earth is so hard to see about that? Unschool (talk) 00:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

"Ever", "any", and "at all" in the statement above serve no informational purpose whatever. They serve only to belittle; conveying a condescending POV on the part of the writer. It is not remarkable that few people have been elected to office as Libertarians, when only a small fraction of the "tens of thousands" of the political offices in the US are partisan to begin with. 76.21.14.100 (talk) 10:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Condescension

Okay, I'm still not sure exactly why you consider this to be condescending, but I'm at least starting to understand what part of this bothers you. First of all, I want to assure you that in no way did I intend this to be condescending. Far from it. I have a great deal of respect for Libertarians in general, and Mr. Marrou specifically. I had the honor of holding an extended conversation in person with him during his Presidential run. We reminisced a bit about Alaska (both of us had lived in that state during the 1980s) and discussed the realistic prospects for the Libertarian movement, and I pledged my vote to him in person, though I also told him that I was willing to do so that year only because I was so disenchanted with both the GOP and Dem candidates (our conversation took place in September, when Ross Perot was still on his "leave" from his run). Anyway, no slight or condescension was intended.

The verbiage to which you have taken such exception originated with this edit, by myself. I thought that the modifier, "to a state legislature", downplayed the importance of Marrou's election. I mean, very few Libertarians have been able to break through the two-party ceiling, anywhere in the US, for any office. Yes, he was one of the few Libertarians elected to a state legislature. But how many Libertarians have been elected to Congress, mayorships, governorships, county boards, city councils, etc? Very few. To point out that he was one of the few elected to a state legislature—without the bigger picture—diminishes (IMHO) the significance of his accomplishment.

Anyway, I have no objection to the current wording. In fact, strictly speaking, it's probably gramatically superior to mine, since the "any" should be inferred from the lack of another modifier. So leave it as it is, but please do understand that no disparagement was intended. Unschool (talk) 04:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I did infer your POV and intended meaning incorrectly. I thought your low-balling of the number of elected Libertarians on the talk page confirmed my interpretation, but I see that was wrong about you. (FYI LP.org currently claims 600 elected Libertarians, but I'm sure that number is low, because it includes only "out" Libertarians. In my county I've known of 4 elected Libertarians (2 school board and 2 water board) who did not adopt a partisan profile in their nonpartisan offices--compared to only 2 openly Libertarian candidates elected during that time.)

I'm glad you did recognize the significance of Marrou's accomplishment. I wish you understood why I thought your edit made it sound like a dig at the Libertarian Party rather than an accolade for Marrou, but I guess that shows how hard it is to write truly POV-neutral text that gets read that way! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.14.100 (talk) 09:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)