Talk:Ancient university

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This article is nothing more than a dictionary entry, and therefore deserves the same fate as Oxbridge, as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, "ancient university" may usually refer to British universities, but to me it just means "universities that are ancient", and therefore not necessarily in Britain. Jeronimo

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[edit] Dublin...

...was not part of the UK when it was founded, for the simple reason that the UK did not exist in 1592! Loganberry 02:10, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Dundee is often counted as one of the ancient universities of Scotland due to its former status as part of St Andrews - see the University of Dundee page.

No mention of the Scottish Ancients Group (evolved into CHESS)? I believe all the Scottish unis considered to be 'ancient' were members: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, St Andrews and possibly Aberdeen. Although now, I think Aberdeen deals solely with the NUS and since the name change, new universities have joined up (Strathclyde and the Open University)

[edit] Other ancient universities in England?

I have heard it said that at the time of the foundation of Oxford and Cambridge, there were other institutions in England that were effectively indistinguishable from them, but which did not survive past the reformation as universities - for example King's School in Ottery St Mary, Devon, which became a grammar school. Does anyone know if this is true? seglea 12:43, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Universities are not defined by their functions, but by documents (parliamentary act, letters patent, royal warrant, papal bull) that enshrine those functions. If the article uses function itself to include institutions without official university status, the same logic should also exclude Oxford and Cambridge during their less proud times, even though they did not lose university status. Maybe it would be useful to include a sentence acknowledging the existence of non-university institutions, link to a few examples, and perhaps indicate why these were not granted university status? 3 October 2005

[edit] Lampeter?

Would Lampeter University count? Granted, it's not ancient per se, but it's older than the red-brick Universities, and was created to serve a different function, i.e. training clergy.

no, it was not a university when it was created. it gained university status in 1971, so is deffinatly not anchient. if Nanjing University is not counted, than lampeter is most certainly not. mastodon 21:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Lampeter's situation is far more complicated than that, because it gained its own degree awarding powers early on in its life - the third institution to gain degree awarding powers after Oxford and Cambridge in England and Wales and a feature unusual to Lampeter (the other early colleges did not gain degree awarding powers until later). In government documents in the 1940s, Lampeter was being referred to as a university, a good few decades before the word 'university' actually worked its way into the institution's official title in 1971. I'm certainly not saying that Lampeter is an 'ancient university', but it can trace its degree awarding powers to earlier than any other university in England and Wales besides Oxbridge, so deserves special mention. That said, i am biased ;) Twrist 12:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
You might be interested in the discussion which goes on (at lennnnnngth) about Dundee University, which some people want to call an ancient. It isn't, in majority opinion, but it can trace its roots back to the very ancient St. Andrews University. – Kieran T (talk | contribs) 13:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Aah yes that is interesting, thanks! Twrist 13:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I think it may well be worth a mention, even though I would consider a university to be, as its name suggests, a broader educational institution than a clerical college. I think the main fault of this label is that many users try to categorise it in an either/or manner. As with the Dundee example - it has an ancient Scottish organisational structure etc, although its age is insufficient to qualify it in that fashion. It is still therefore well worthy of mention when the issue is being discussed IMO --Breadandcheese 20:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] worldwideness

seems very UK-central. i say other institues should be better represented; i've added some in. where did the deffinition come from? mastodon 21:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The term is in common usage in U.K. academic and political circles. It's UK-centric, but that's irrelevant if the term isn't used elsewhere. In the U.S. they have the "Ivy League", but I don't think that's U.S.-centric just because it's not used widely elsewhere. It's simply a local phrase. – Kieran T (talk | contribs) 13:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

The Ancient universities of Scotland article seems to be largely a duplicate insofar as it is a localised page on this subject with very little in the way of localised information which could easily be included here and would be of interest to anyone dealing with the general topic. --Breadandcheese 20:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)