Talk:Ancient history of Yemen
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[edit] Blanking of Yemen history
Tihama origin? Add don't delete. I disagree with most of the article, but I never deleted anything! If it has references Iw ill keep it --Skatewalk 22:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Disrespecting Yemeni Oral tradition
(rv POV, fabrication and largely apocryphal tradition & legend; see Talk:History of Yemen). Today Yemen is a 100% Arab nation. And All Arabs trace their lineage back to Yemen. the whole Toihama section is added just because they suspected African origins to jars found in Tihama! We know Yemenites traded with Africa. And Yemen never had any Non-Semitic influence at all (name one Semitic language that existed in Yemen). Whicle Non Semitic languages were spoken in Ancient Syria and Mesopotamia. The article listed refrences that you chose to delete! and disrespect as utter BS? So tell me who is fabricating here!--Skatewalk 22:23, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- Firstly, the references added did not support the claims made. Of the additions you just restored, the only source was this one, which supports none of the claims made above. The brief page, which is not that reliable, I might add, states that the Akkadians migrated northward from the "Arabic [sic] peninsula," making no mention of Yemen or the Sayhad or Rub' al-Khali. The rest of the statements added are unsourced. Also, the Tihama section was added not because of their ties but because I knew about it and the pre-iron age history of Yemen was severely lacking. Of course, the Bronze age cultures of all of Yemen should be added (with sources) ASAP. Also note, that "Black ware" refers to the black-burnished pottery, not the color of the people. As to Yemen being "100% Semitic," languages change. Just because we don't have evidence of a non-Semitic language there doesn't mean one never existed. We don't haev any evidence of a non-Niger-Congo language existing in Gambia, but there must have been some, since we are rather certain that Niger-Congo languages did not originate there. Similarly, we know that Afro-Asiatic did not originate in Yemen, so there must have been some language spoken there (which cannot have been Semitic, a sub-group of Afro-Asiatic) before the spread of that language family to Yemen. Evidence of absence is not absence of evidence. As for Yemen being Arab, that it is (although the Mahra and related groups might not be considered so by all), but this does not mean that we have evidence of Qahtanites in Yemen. All we have are late (by Sabaean standards) Arab legends. That's not to say that no Arabs ever lived in parts of what are today Yemen, as by the early 5th century (under Abukarib As`ad, r. probably 410-435, à la Kitchen), Wadi al-Fau was conquered and the rulers of Himyar added "and their Arabs" to their title (see Ryckmen in BASOR - vol.14 no.1). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia
Excuse me? So are you trying to say that the Semitic language came from Africa? its just an accident that the Semitic languages appered in the Far North in Akkad by 2300BC (documented). While the first presence of Semitic scripts appeared in Africa 6th century BC and it came from Yemen. See I didn't change many things I disagreed with in the EThiopia article, but thats not my nation or my history. as of the website you decided to delete the sources! The Qahtani timeline in Yemen The origin of Arabs
Africa has only one branch of Semitic language (western South Semitic and its branch of the Yemeni Western Semitic)
Yemen has both Western South Semitic and the more archaic Eastern South Semitic that is closely related to the Eatsern Semitic family (Akkadian). More than the Western South Semitic (South Arabic and Ethiopic)
The whole pottery story is already known to be irrelevant to race, especially in Yemen, because Yemenis are known for their trading activity and they had soime pottery from Africa. Is that stronger evidence than having the Semitic puritty in Yemen and Yemen only? Today Yemen is 100% Arab. all the 22 Arab nations have Arabs who claim direct origin to Yemen at some point of time. I dont want to make this article a whole Arab and report your anti Arab tendencies. I already allowed your original material aditions about the Tihama culture, because you had a reference. The problem with you is your trying to deny the Arabs and Yemenis of the original homeland, aking adavantage of the Yemenis kindhearts and nice manners twoards you. If you wan to be a Yemeni fine. Join the group and add to it, but remember Yemen never was and will ever be a Negro nation. We a highly sophisticated nation that don't beleive in the primitive racist discirmination. Our culture is Arab and we are teh fatherland of ARabs and it will always be that way. Everybody is welcome aslong as they respect our Arab culture and Arab history--Skatewalk 09:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
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- First of all, the origin of Semitic languages is not what's important here. I didn't state that they started in Africa or Yemen or anyplace for that matter. All I said is that Afro-Asiatic languages originated outside of Yemen, and when this was the case, Semitic did not exist, and the inhabitants of what is now Yemen could not have spoken a Semitic language (just like every other now Semitic-speaking area). Secondly, Eastern and Western South semitic are just alternative names for Modern and Old South Arabia. They do not refer to one being Western Semitic and the other Eastern Semitic (if they did it would Southern West Semitic and Southern East Semitic, which it is not).
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- As for race, where did I make a single comment regarding race? Of course pottery is irrelevant to race. I never said Yemenis are black or anything (which is what you seem to have inferred). Purity is also not an issue here (no people are "pure" anyway, unless you consider it from the more logical angle of all people being pure humans). Now, as to Yemen being Arab today, I do not deny that, but the majority of what is now Yemen was not Arab in the past but South Semitic-speaking South Arabians.
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- As for the Qahtan, we have inscriptions placing them firmly in the Kinda area of Saudi Arabia. The first reference to them was by the king Sha`r Awtar of Saba', who named Rabi`a Dhu-al-Thawr "King of Kindat and Qahtan." Their capital was at Qaryat al-Fau in what is now south-central Saudi Arabia, not what is now Yemen. You can see "Documentation for Ancient Arabia" by Kenneth Kitchen for a citation. I mean no disrespect or insult when I say this. I'm simply stating what we know from history and not legend. The legends are not that far off, anyway, since Kindah and Qaryat al-Faw are just north of what is now the border between Yemen and Saudi Arabia. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- FWIW, Skatewalk, I have the greatest respect for the nation and culture of Yemen, but it is not based on any idea that they are "racially pure." I cannot even tell what that means in real life. I am reverting the passage in question, not only because it is controversial and argumentative, but because it is written in atrocious English. At the very least, correct the elementary errors in spelling and grammar before continuing. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 12:53, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Who said we are racially pure? Does that give you an excuse to push your Afrocentric agenda on us? --Alameer 20:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Please notice my signature. I did not add to the article, but removed a controversial passage. I remind you to assume good faith and ask yourself whether you are really trying to achieve a neutral point of view in this article. Accusing me of "pushing" an agenda is a discourtesy. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 21:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
In Yemen and Arab countries, and any university worldwide will tell you that the recorded history starts by *BC in south Arabia, before that the Qahtani tribes lived in South Arabia and traded with Africa, India and the North Arabia. Its simple to pint out bogus, you can't hijack our history. You don't see Arabs editing Aksum or D'mt? we respect the current dominant African culture and let them write their own history. Some people show some a need to insult others ..."RV per talk page. Very poor English" I am not sure what you were talking about, but the article was decent and just needed some work (not deletion).--Skatewalk 01:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Afrocentric Antisemitism
How dare you delte Qahtan well known history and add your Afrocentric bogus as the origin of Yemen? --Alameer 20:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I have restored the passage, as it was not inspired by an "Afrocentric agenda" or composed by "black racists." Please review the Five Pillars of Wikipedia before making further changes. Thank you. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 21:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Please see WP:NPA (No personal attacks). Firstly, I am not a racist, nor do I have an "Afrocentric agenda." All I have done is posted material with a reliable source on the pre-history of Yemen. There are obviously other Bronze Age cultures of Yemen that need to be included, but I'm not as familiar with them and I don't have a source handy to add information in that regard. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
It takes a fast look at your edits to know your agenda. The main issue is your nonsense you are trying to post! and the other hand you are claiming that Qahtan is not Yemen! Although the artcile had 6 references supporting it, and any Yemeni or ARab knows that Qahtan is the origin of Arabs. Its simple if you want to be dedicated Afrocentric you should restrain the temptation of staining other peoples history with your hateful statements, because it will only bring a negative stigma to your own people and ends up backfiring at your attempts to present the Africans as civilzed people!--Skatewalk 01:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
To skatewalk: Who says black Africans need to take Arabian history as their own in order to prove themselves civilized? Africa was mostly tribal, yes, but there were a few civilizations and empires that rose there. However, I agree with you. Afrocentrists are wrong to present take Arab history and claim that it was founded by black folk. Outside of Ethiopia (Axum) and Islam, Arabia little or nothing to do with black africa in terms of development of culture or ethnicity. They (the afrocentrics) are stupid for doing that. A real disgrace to the black race. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.136.47.28 (talk) 02:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Qahtan the origin of Arabs
This article needs serious attention. Every Arab knows that Qahtan is Yemen! I got an email regarding this subject and just because Yemenis are chewing Qat most of the day. That doesn't give Anti-Arabs the right to stain the Yemeni Arab history with their AntiArab hate speech. The Zionists attempts to distort the Arab history is well known and we are not sleeping!--The12e32nd 23:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
