Talk:Ancient City Ship

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[edit] Size of City Ships/Atlantis

Where is it stated they are bigger than Ori or Wraith hive ships? Do we know exactly how big they are? We've seen Atlantis from the air, but we don't know from how high up and we don't have anything to compare it to (of which we do know the size) we don't know it's exact area. The snare 20:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there are specs on Atlantis:

Height: 1982 Ft. Width: 10985 Ft. Length: 10985 Ft.

Which would make it about 2 miles long. Apparently, someone measured it based on a scene at the end of an episode where they zoom out from a balcony scene over on the Gateworld.net forum.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=27438&page=5

But according to the producers, Atlantis is about a mile long but I'm not taking that at face value. The episode-based measurement holds up.

So yeah, definately bigger than the Ori ships but not a Hive ship. On the 1st page of that forum post, it lists a hive ship as being (according to a simmilar forumla) at being 3.3 Miles long.

Faris b 22:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Fan measurements should never be trusted, it si pure speculation. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 22:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree, it was measured based on mathematics, not guessing like everyone else's measurements. I think we just have to face the facts that the show's staff don't care to tell us the sizes of the ships so it's up to us to make the best educated guess. Hey, I'm all for perfection but we have to fill in the blanks with something, I for one, don't want to see in the info boxes "Height, width, length unknown" forever.

Faris b 22:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Why would add "unknown" etc to the infobox? The value doesnt show unless called - also its a thing called WP:OR - fan measurements could be drasticly wrong. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 22:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I would agree if we were talking about the old measurements like for the Daedalus class ship pages as those are just guesses, except for the ones I worked on based on window size but these were taken under circumstances that someone else could get repeat results. Why don't you see where I'm going at. I think it should be ok to use unofficial sizes if the results can be proven, but not guesses.

Well, maybe not for the "fictional ship" boxes but the old, old ones listed everything. While I am familiar with wiki's policies, I however, believe that I am correct here. I have noticed that almost everyone called Daedalus class ships Deep space carriers out there on the net and that Wiki is about the only site that calls them battlecruisers. I know rules are rules but I think that I as well as the others who believe in what I believe are correct that we are just silenced because of rules. Wiki rules work well for everything except pages for SF series type things.

Faris b 22:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

For one, you have to use your heads...Atlantis is a city with 70+ towers as counted in video clips. Now compare this to the city of...say New York, which has a comparable number of towers. While the New York comparison has other factors into it's size, look at the clips of the Daedalus landing on Atlantis and the model of the Daedalus flying in the hive ship (episode allies). We know from an e-mail sent by Bruce Woloshyn (lead visual effects supervisor for Rainmaker, the company that makes a large amount of visual effects for stargate) that the Daedalus-class ship is over 700 meters. The clips of the Daedalus landing on Atlantis, show Atlantis towering over the ship as it lands on one of the piers, in addition the Daedalus is only landing on one of the strips, of what looks like concrete, between the ocean and towers. Now due to the rules of Wikipedia I can't say an exact measurement, but as shown through video clips taken from episodes, one Atlantis pier is comparable to a hive ship, meaning that atlantis is much larger than a hive ship. Atlantis would in fact be comparable to seven hive ships as it has six piers, plus the main center section. The main problem with comparing the two, is that the special effects team constantly changes Alantis's appearence; in the first episode Atlantis piers have 30 towers a piece, where as the latest episode, First Strike, shows the Atlantis piers having no towers at all. I am using pictures taken out of the episode "Storm" from the middle of season 1, and "the Siege" from the end of season 1. None of my arguement has been original research, just a statement of the facts shown on the show and then comparing Atlnatis to the hive ships based upon those facts.Atomicshift 00:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)atomicshiftAtomicshift 00:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terranis outpost?

What does everyone think? Was the Terranis outpost left behind by an Ancient city ship or was it constructed just as a regular old outpost? I'm thinking it was constructed separately because it seems pretty large, has many rooms and looks just like Atlantis inside and has it's own Deep space sensors, Atlantis-style DHD, a hangar bay and a shield. I'm guessing it was built separately. I guess there's no point even discussing this when you get down to it but I just want to throw this out there. So, do Ancient outposts deserve a separate article as well? There is also the Dorandan outpost with that weapon that used Zero point energy without limit.

Faris b 02:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I always thought the terranis outpost was built seperately. however, the smaller outposts left behind by the city ships also have seperate shields and sensors... --Maartentje 15:47, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Who ever said the other type of Ancient outposts have sensors? All I saw was that big room with the control chair and there is also drone storage below, unless you mean that hologram technology like in "The Tower", I don't think they have sensors. I'm the one who wrote the paragraph on Ancient outposts of city ships in the Atlantis article so I'm pretty familiar with them.

Faris b 19:39, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

yeah, you're right, it was never stated the outposts have seperate sensors. but what's the purpose of weapons without sensors to know what you're shooting at? Maartentje 09:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, unless there are more rooms than shown excluding the drone storage room, I don't think the outposts have sensors except for that hologram technology, also, since Drones use a mental interface, I guess they can be programmed to attack only a certain type of ships, that's how it seemed to work in "Lost City", the drones only attacked the Goa'uld ships and left the Earth ships alone because most likely, Jack was only was intending for the Goa'uld ships to be destroyed so the drones were programmed as such, this is also proven in "Rising" when Dr. Beckett fires a drone at Gen. O'Neill's helicopter, he couldn't control where it was going so it was just going after the only flying thing in the area, thus demonstrating that the drones get their target from the user's mind.

Faris b 09:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

All right. I can't imagine the use of a planetary defence outpost that can't detect what's in orbit, but after all, you're quite familiar with them, no offence. Maartentje 14:32, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm just going with what was shown onscreen. The outpost appears to be quite large, about the height of the central tower so maybe the sensors are on a different level or something, the drone storage seemed to be right below the top level so maybe. And yes as a matter of fact I am quite familiar with them, I am a hardcore SG-1/Atlantis fan and I study every bit of anything I see so please stop with the sarcasm. I didn't see any consoles in the Antarctic outpost in any ep that the outpost was shown in.

Faris b 21:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, we're all big fans, me included, who do you think wrote this article, Moros (Stargate), Morgan le Fay (Stargate), Janus (Stargate) (before they mwere merged off course) and Ancient Control Chair? So I'm quite familiar with stargate technology as well. But this is a pointless discussion indeed, if it's not stated that the outposts have or don't have sensors, they shouldn't even be mentioned... Maartentje 11:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Outpost on water

just to clear things up, atlantis also has a seperate outpost attached to the bottom, so its reasonable to assume that it is required to float even on water... and Asuras was supposed to be identical to atlantis... after all, we've never seen atlantis' engines clear enough, so we can suppose they look identical... and Lemuria is not the "real" name of the city ship encountered in "The Tower", its just the name some fans have given it... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maartentje (talk • contribs) 10:50, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that spire on the bottom is the outpost for Atlantis, the original is still on Earth and the current one is a replacement. Yes, we have seen Atlantis's engines, in the very beginning "Rising" there are only 3 on each of the large piers, I suppose Asuras with six is an upgrade of some kind and the underside is different, Asuras is larger on the underside than Atlantis, again, look at "Rising".

Yes, while Lemuria is not confirmed, it's likely the name since they never found the real name.

Faris b 19:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

but we don't use likely information, we use confirmed information. i just rewatched Progeny and Rising, and you're right about the engines, im sorry. Maartentje 09:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I got that all sorted out, no problem. That's ok.

Faris b 09:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

have anyone considered that atlantis have millions of years old?, in all the time the ancients had make some changes in the city, the stardrive is possibly one of them. JDeus01 02:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so when we see the new diagrams of Atlantis in the control room scenes, there is a bottom spire, which was assumed to be added by both the replicator and ancient upgrades/fixes. But in "the Rising" there is no bottom spire so it is not neccesary to float the city. And yes, the Asuran city ship looks very similar to Atlantis, but if you look at the pictures close enough, each of the Asuran city's piers are identical, where as Atlantis seems to have 2 variety of piers. The two cities are not identical so any information about the Asuran city ship cannot be used on Atlantis.Atomicshift 00:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nox ship?

This article is about Ancient city ships, I don't think the Nox one belongs in the article, for all we know, it's not a ship, just a floating city since they seem to have the powers to go into other dimensions.

Faris b 20:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, there is no need to such extraneous info in the article. That section seems pretty specific to me in referring to Ancient city-ships found in the Pegasus galaxy. I'm reverting. -- Huntster T • @ • C 20:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pic for city ship

While I agree, the pic of Asuras in hyperspace is cooler than that of Atlantis on the ocean, I have to agree that the pic of it on the ocean is better for showing the detail.

But just incase you all want a comprimise, how about this one:

http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s3/305/html/progeny436.html

It shows most of the skyline/detail and it's function in space.

Faris b 19:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought of the same picture before. The resolution is incredible, I'll grant you that... The problem however is that it only shows about half of the city... I uploaded a larger and better version of the last picture I used (on the right), maybe we should use this one. I downloaded the entire episode for just one frame, so I beg you to consider it. :D Maartentje 22:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Great that your all trying to fin a space picture.. its just you cant really see th city can you> With a still aerial view you see the city alot better.. but if you'd prefer a space scene in the infobox.. then sure. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 22:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, like I said, this article is about the ship, Atlantis (Stargate) is about the city. And the ship should have a picture of the ship => in space with the shield activated, and the city should have a picture of the city => atlantis on water. At least that's what I think, and Faris apparently likes it too... Maartentje 00:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I think the current pic speaks well for the article, plus, I think most people would rather have a detailed pic that shows most of the ship rather than a grainy one that shows all of it.

Faris b 03:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I think we should use this image, since the Ship is flying and it's far more clear and bright than the other one. --Sauron18 00:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't think so. That pic doesn't show it's function outside the atmosphere and you can barely tell that it's in the air instead of on the water.--Vala M 14:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

This picture is of the Asuran city ship, which as I proved in the above section, is not identical to the Lantean-class city ship.Atomicshift 00:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't like it, sorry, part of it is cut of, also to foggy.. not to mention it's 4:3.. ? thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 14:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, here's one I liked better and fits all the location standards, it's essentially like the current one, but you can see more of it, and you can see it a lot better. This one I really like, and I think it is the best shot of a City Ship I've seen. --Sauron18 19:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, that one is great. I think it could be used but let's wait and see what everyone else thinks first.

Vala M 19:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I think this is the best picture we have so far, but my main problem with it is that if you look at the piers, there are no towers, and all of the previous pictures show towers on the piers...unless they all fall off during space flight. maybe that's a better conversation for a new section thoughAtomicshift 00:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

it's perfect. Maartentje 13:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lemuria or Praclarush Taonas?

I know, we can't use this info but I'm just throwing it out there, I, as well as a few others called the ship in "The Tower" Lemuria, while it's possible that was it's name, so far, and this is in accordance with "The Pegasus Project", it seems Pracarush Taonas was an important Lantean city so the ship found in "The Tower" is probably Praclarush Taonas and not Lemuria. Faris b 03:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't really agree with your theory, Faris. The name "Praclarush Taonas" was translated by Daniel into "lost in fire". This would either mean the planet (which was "lost in fire") was called Praclarush Taonas or that the city on it wouldn't longer exist. Also, the name "Praclarush Taonas", is composed of six syllables that translate into the gate address of the planet, which would make it even more unlikely that the city itself was called that. After all, the Ancients didn't call Atlantis "Terra" just because it was on Earth... Although I wouldn't call it Lemuria either, I still think the name is more probable for the city ship in "The Tower". Maartentje 09:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but as I said, in "The Pegasus Project" the Morgan La Fey hologram calls it Praclarush Taonas, that could have been just for their [Daniel and Vala and such] sake to avoid confusion but who knows.

Faris b 22:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the fact remains that no one knows what happened to the city ship on praclarush taonas (its presence was evidenced by the existence of an ancient outpost there), so theoretically its possible that the two are actually the same. However, I still think that we should assume that only one city ship came to pegasus, being atlantis. Maartentje 22:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Maartentje, All we know is that the city ship in the tower is currently in the Pegasus galaxy, not that it flew there. And Praclarush Taonas is only an outpost, no where does it say that it was once a city.

[edit] 3 or 4 ZPMs?

WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD

For what we know the city ships have 3 ZPMs as power source, but the outpost have another one, so it not should say that they have 4?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.48.70.126 (talk • contribs)17:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

They gave one ZPM to the outpost, one to the Odyssey, and kept one for use on Atlantis and (sometimes) on the Daedalus. -- DiegoTehMexican 18:17, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

No, because the outpost's ZPM could have been added in preperation of being left behind. Furthmore the ZPM in the outpost only powers the outpost, so it wouldn't have contributed to the city.Atomicshift 00:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asuras

Is Asuras the Asurans' homeworld, or the name of their city ship? -- SFH 19:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess both but if you go by the way they did with Atlantis, Atlantis being the name of the ship and Lantea being the name of the planet, I guess we'll have to call it the Asuran homeworld for now. Faris b 05:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I would consider it to be the name of their homeworld...perhaps the city ship doesn't have a proper name, given it was merely a copy, rather than an original Ancient vessel. -- Huntster T • @ • C 20:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Also the city ship was never used until Atlantis was revealed, it was mearly part of the city. I think it would be safe to say that Asuras refers to the asuran homeworld, and more specifically the city in which they live, of which part was the city ship.Atomicshift 00:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No need for outpost?

Isn't the whole idea of the need for an outpost obliterated by the two part season 4 opener, Adrift/Lifeline? They manage to land the city on a place that doesn't seem to have a previous outpost. ~Cr∞nium 11:32, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it isn't always necessary if it lands on water. Remember, in the past Atlantis and the other city were both on land, so maybe on water it's not necessary. Plus, it was an emergency situation, leave the planet or be destroyed.

I was disappointed as well that they never mentioned the outpost. I just assumed that it remained behind in the bottom of the ocean.

Vala M 12:59, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Pure speculation, but to add to Vala's statement, perhaps the outpost is only necessary when an anchor station is required for some reason, either underwater or on land. Perhaps it serves an unknown purpose, such as geothermal energy production. In the end, unless they explain it we will never know. -- Huntster T • @ • C 22:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC)