Talk:Anberlin

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Anberlin article.
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Good article Anberlin has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Maintained The following user(s) are actively contributing to this article and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources:
Liscobeck (talk · contribs), Pbroks13 (talk · contribs), Mears man (talk · contribs)
This in no way implies article ownership; all editors are encouraged to contribute.
Archive
Archives
Archive 1 . Revisiting the Genre Issue


Contents

[edit] Embrace The Dead

If you search "Embrace the Dead" on Google, there are dozens of hits for Anberlin lyrics. Is this an unreleased Anberlin song?

No, actually, "Embrace the Dead" was a song made when they were still known as SaGoh 24/7, so no, it is not an unreleased Anberlin song. Pbroks13 14:50, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SaGoh 24/7

Somebody let this article die via prod... Chubbles 16:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Since that article was deleted and it doesn't really have enough to stand on its own, I merged its content here. Chubbles 16:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA fail

I have failed this article because it fails points 1,2,3 and 4 on the good article criteria. The lead sections is too short and the article is full of proseline. Many sections contain no sources where there should be, especially when numbers of sales are involved. The article is not balanced in its coverage, the section for the Origin of name is longer than almost all of the other sections despite probably not being that important in the whole picture. There is a non neutral tone especially when talking about former member Joey Bruce. The overall tone is not quite encyclopedic yet, try looking at Wikipedia:Featured articles#Music for examples of how band articles should be written. T Rex | talk 15:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I fixed a couple of things: I rewrote some portions, removed some unnecessary info and got rid of the proseline. The tone has been fixed a bit, with Joey Bruce and all. There is still much to be done, especially with citations. Liscobeck 16:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pop-Punk

Okay, lets talk about genres and not edit them until we get a decision. Pop-punk seems to be in dispute? What are everyones thoughts? -- Pbroks13 21:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think it needs to be listed, but I don't really have any reason for thinking that other than the fact that I don't really consider them to be pop-punk. —Mears man 21:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Honestly i think they are Pop Punk and not just because I think they are or i think that sound like, But many sites have listed them to be Pop Punk or Emo and even Indie Rock. But manly they are listed Alternative rock/Punk Pop/Comentary christian music. Honestly there not only just christian rock and Alterntive. I in my own a though i think the only reson why people say there Emo is because of there music video Godspeed and how they write there lyics. User:Skateremorocker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.247.22.131 (talk) 19:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I've added a citation needed tag to this genre, please provide one, or else it has to be taken down. Hoponpop69 23:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Myself and other Members are on it. But my quistion is how do we put the information on here about the being pop punk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skateremorocker (talk • contribs) 19:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I have found information on this band being Pop Punk Anberlin:cites Aversion.com heres what this artic says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sk8erforzero (talk • contribs) 18:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

What you guys dont seem to understand is that just because you found a site for a peice of information doesnt mean it's necessarily true. -- Pbroks13 21:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm still stunned that Anberlin is STILL classified Christian Rock... no wonder this article failed the GA. Christian Rock shouldn't even be a category of music. Oh well. DEVS EX MACINA pray 03:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Just a few things...
  1. A mediation was made for the genres. You can see it here.
  2. The GA fail had nothing to do with the genres... I hope your just kidding.
  3. Feel free to somehow be constructive? Maybe? -- Pbroks13 04:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I think he is, but it's still very funny. The lack of fans on the autograph signing photo is funny as well. Sorry :) --andreasegde 15:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I just thought I'd comment and say that the picture was taken before an autograph session, not during one, which would explain the lack of fans in the image. —Mears man 15:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emo genre

Ok, a lot of people have been adding "Emo" to the genre list of this article and Anberlin's album pages. Did we decide that Anberlin was emo, or is that incorrect? I'm not thinking they are, since emo isn't really a genre at all, but a lyrical style, but people insist on it. Any thoughts? Liscobeck (talk) 22:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I think I've said this before, but I don't consider Anberlin to be an emo band, and I've yet to see any real argument as to why they should be labeled as such. —Mears man (talk) 00:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so classifying a band as "emo" is really controversial. I mean, people mainly tag most bands as "emo" because of their fashion sense or because of the band's popularity with the "emo" crowd; not because the band adheres to emo as a music genre, which I think is what is happening here. Anberlin should not be classified as "emo"; their musical lyrics do not show it. Pbroks13 07:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I think yes we should add emo to the topic on a review on the album the band is meintioned very much as a emo/pop punk band.

Sticky sweet pop melodies, explosive pop-punk chord progressions, "sensitive guy" lyrics. Yep, this should all sound pretty darn familiar if you're a rock fan circa the early 21st century, as there's been an endless stream of bands (for years by this point) that meet all the prerequisites of the aforementioned checklist. And on their 2007 release, Cities, there are certain moments that you can definitely add Anberlin to this list. Thankfully, they don't specialize in that annoying frat-boy-esque shtick that some pop-punk bands do; instead, Anberlin can be quite an ambitious bunch that go the emo route. While songs such as the album opening "Godspeed" sounds like your average pop-punk band of the moment, tracks such as the acoustic guitar-driven "The Unwinding Cable Car" is emo at its most naked (and includes some pretty darn impressive vocal harmonies). But for the most part, the tunes sound like a hopeful trying to win over the judges in the latest episode of Rockstar, especially on such tracks as "Adelaide" and "Hello Alone." Nothing too groundbreaking here, but nothing cringe-worthy, either.[1] User:skateremorocker


[edit] GA pass

A few notes for improvement

  • Image caption in infobox needs wikilinking where appropriate, and a date.
Y Done —Mears man 16:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • You don't need the flag icon in the infobox.
Y Done —Mears man 16:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • A few band redlinks could be removed or created.
Y Done —Mears man (talk) 05:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • You shouldn't have external links to MySpace etc. in the article body, put them in the EL section
Y Done —Mears man 16:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Image in Members section needs a better caption
Y Done —Liscobeck 03:52, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Don't need Video Links for the singles, leave those for the respective articles
Y Done —Mears man 16:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Far too many external links.
Y Done —Pbroks13 06:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

Y Done —Pbroks13 (talk) 15:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Y Done —Pbroks13 (talk) 15:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christian/Alternative rock

Ok, somebody has been changing all of the genres from "alternative rock" to "Christian rock". I'm definitely a Christian, and have no problem with Anberlin having spiritual lyrics, but it was decided in a mediation that the main genre was alternative rock, NOT Christian rock, correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liscobeck (talk • contribs) 18:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if the mediation actually came right out and said that, but I'm pretty sure that was more or less the spirit of it. If memory serves me, the mediation was to determine whether or not "Christian rock" should be listed as one of the band's genres, and it was decided that Christian rock should be listed in the infobox with a link to the appropriate section about the controversy. As such, I'd say it's safe to say that the main genre listed/mentioned throughout the article should be alternative rock, seeing as it was debated whether Christian rock should be listed at all. Oh, and just to be clear, I fully support the Christian rock label, but I still think it would be best to describe their music as alternative rock throughout most of the article. —Mears man (talk) 19:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I think their not Alternative but Indie rock and Christian rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.72.155 (talk) 02:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know 207.119.72.155, I reverted your last edit before seeing that you had commented on the talk page, so sorry about that. Still, usually a questionable change to the article is discussed and consensus is met before the change is made and not the other way around, so I think it might be best to leave the article as is for now until we see where the discussion leads us. Is there any argument you can make or reason you can give why Anberlin should not be listed as alternative rock but rather Christian rock, or is it more a matter or personal preference? —Mears man (talk) 04:19, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

That's fine with me but I still think their Indie rock not alternative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.70.65 (talk) 15:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The genre should NOT be Christian Rock. If the band has said they they are not a Christian band, then I think that clears all debate over the genre. Religion is just another one of the many aspects of life that can inspire someone to write and create music. The band can only reach a larger demographic if the fans respect their wishes and stop referring to them as a Christian Rock band. Xenosagian (talk) 18:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Indie rock

Ok I think I should change it from Alternative to Indie rock but I need some votes and if I get none I'm just changing it so let me see some votes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.235.202 (talk) 18:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all, we don't vote on Wikipedia, we reach consensus. Secondly, I don't really consider Anberlin to be an indie rock band, and I certainly don't think we should remove the alternative rock label. From what I understand the main thing that distinguishes indie bands from others is not the sound of their music (for there's a pretty decent variety present), but rather being on an independent record label as opposed to a major record label. Seeing as Anberlin is signed to a major record label, I don't really see how they're an indie band. —Mears man (talk) 18:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say they weren't Alternative and I just said vote because I want a simple yes or no and why care what wikipedia wants what's it going to do swat you on the head and say no.Just give me a yes or no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.235.202 (talk) 05:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

For the reasons I've given before, I'm going to say no, I don't think Anberlin should be labeled as an indie rock band. —Mears man (talk) 05:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I need more than just one vote and don't add EMO to the genre's without discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.235.202 (talk) 17:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Just for the record, I don't think they should be listed as Emo either, nor have I ever suggested that they should be. —Mears man (talk) 18:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Your oppinion is only valued if other people vote stop writing in here just yes or no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.66.220 (talk) 21:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

First of all, I reccomend that you read this. It's not to be offensive, but to help you be more constructive. Secondly, Anberlin should not be labeled as indie per Mears man's comment. Anberlin is on a major record label.
Taken straight form indie rock:"Indie rock is a supposed genre of alternative rock that primarily exists in the independent underground music scene." --Pbroks13 03:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

207.119.235.202, you stated in an earlier post: "why care what wikipedia wants what's it going to do swat you on the head and say no". It's not about what Wikipedia WANTS, per se. Wikipedia, while it can be edited to whatever you want, has policies that should be followed in order for the encyclopedia to be at its best potential. The reason Wikipedia can have such a bad reputation is that some people change facts without any verification or any other reason (or just to be "funny"). It's not about what you "think" Anberlin is, we are supposed to show what Anberlin really is. If you think Anberlin is considered "indie rock", great, but discuss changes first (because of the mediation), and be prepared to back it up with info other than your own opinion. Liscobeck (talk) 15:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Well ok then all I wanted was a few votes and I got them so its decided it won't be changed thanks for voteing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.72.147 (talk) 20:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

What genre are they other than Alternative and Christian rock? They seem to be something other than them but what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.33.172 (talk) 20:37, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possible sentence revision needed

In the Involvement in Christian music section, there's one sentence that reads as follows:

"Despite these statements and others of the like, multiple sources list the band as part of the Christian rock genre, and some songs' lyrics containing religious references further these inaccuracies."

Is inaccuracies the proper word to use there? Maybe I'm having a hard time understanding the sentence, but to me it reads as if it's either saying that the band has inaccurately been labeled as Christian or it has been inaccurately described as non-Christian. This seems to be a bit of POV regardless of which way you read it. Should this be rephrased, perhaps by removing the word "inaccuracies" altogether and saying something about the inconsistencies between the "they're Christian" and the "they're not Christian" messages presented to the public? —Mears man (talk) 00:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

But it also said (not specificly) that they will do some songs with Christian values in them but their not going to be devoted to that genre. So their still somewhat Christian rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.146.211 (talk) 16:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I wrote that sentence, and I can see your concern, but I'm having a hard time thinking of what to put there instead. Liscobeck (talk) 04:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revisiting the Genre Issue

Archived

[edit] Semi-protect?

Is there any way we could get a temporary semi-protect on this article? Anonymous editor(s) keep reverting the changes to the genre that were agreed upon here, and it's getting old real fast. Personally, I think it's all the same person (maybe an editor who wasn't happy with the result of the discussion) that's been doing all the reverting, but their IP address keeps changing so I don't know how much help warnings or a block would be. —Mears man (talk) 23:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. We need a semi-protection. Otherwise individuals continue to think they own this article and add disputed, false content123.242.230.163 (talk) 00:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Hah, funny how the semi-protect would only affect you and not any of us. --pbroks13talk? 04:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Just in case someone out there didn't notice (and for future reference, I suppose), I did manage to get the article semi-protected for one week. Hopefully this will cut down on the problems we've been having, and if things start up again after the protection has expired we can always see if we can get the protection reinstated. —Mears man (talk) 04:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you all changing the article again? I personally think didputed is fine. 84.16.230.15 (talk) 04:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

No, we are not discussing changing the genre at this time. We were having some difficulty enforcing the decision to keep the genre listed as disputed, though, so we did have to get the article semi-protected. Personally, I think we've been beating a dead horse with this issue, and it's time to just let it go for now unless something significant comes up in the future. —Mears man (talk) 04:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

If you don't want people to change genre's just ask Glasscobra how to block people from this artical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.150.73 (talk) 17:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Editing RE: Stephen Christian

Josh.p.d.b. (talk) 10:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone has changed whatever was previously there to the following.

"The second (Never Take Friendship Personal) was Man Vs. Man. Cities is more adult in the manner that it's about the lead singers journey through puberty, and finding out that he likes cocks in his mouth."[5][6]"

I am unsure what was there previously so could someone possibly change it back?

Vandalism is fun! I reverted, should be cleared up now. Tony Fox (arf!) 15:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Modern rock

I'm sorry to bring the genre issue up once again, but this issue must be addressed. Some people keep adding modern rock as a genre to the infobox without discussion. I am taking it out for now, but are there any motions (with reasons) to have or not have modern rock as a genre? Liscobeck (talk) 04:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I sorta have a reffrence saying they are. You see on air1 radio a old CD review for Cities they called and a "Fresh new Modern rock band" And I know I have no proof that exists but they can't possibly be just Rock. House of Hero's is just rock but they sound much diferent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.148.39 (talk) 02:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh! I've just been struck by insperation!If their not plain Rock and their not Modern rock and their not Hard rock and their not Indie rock then they must be Experemental rock!Its totally logical and I can't possibly see how anyone can deny that they are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.148.39 (talk) 02:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

That's great, 69.29.148.39, but we need a REFERENCE saying they are experimental. We cannot use original research. Please back things up like this with sources. -Liscobeck (talk) 03:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Well man I'd really like to find a reffrence but I don't know any=/ But it is pretty obvious that they are and you don't need to reffrence it if its already obvious. Basicly, If somone has made an artical for lets say Lecrae. And they listed him as a Hard rock artist.Well then you wouldn't need a reffrence to change it to Rap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.148.39 (talk) 16:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

So we adding it or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.148.39 (talk) 02:01, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Your example of Lecrae is not valid: I think anyone who would listen to him would know he is not hard rock. It is common knowledge to declare that he is hip-hip/rap. However, with Anberlin, there is a very fine line between experimental rock and alternative rock. What is experimental about them? Has anyone else quoted them as such? Most publications list Anberlin as alternative rock, or something around that genre. This is why we need a reference for this genre change. -Liscobeck (talk) 22:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)