Talk:An-Nisa, 34
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[edit] al-Hibri
This lawyer is not a reliable source for Quranic exegesis. She is not a historian or an Islamic studies scholar. She publishes in law journals, and is a reliable source for matters of law, but not for matters of interpretation of the Quran or hadith. In this regard she is no better than any one else. Arrow740 05:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Punishment
punishment: 1: the act of punishing 2 a: suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution b: a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure 3: severe, rough, or disastrous treatment
So by definition 3, hitting your wife is "punishment."
punish: 1 a: to impose a penalty on for a fault, offense, or violation b: to inflict a penalty for the commission of (an offense) in retribution or retaliation 2 a: to deal with roughly or harshly b: to inflict injury on : hurt intransitive verb
- to inflict punishment
According to definition 2, hitting your wife is punishing her. Also whatever she did to make you angry is the "fault or offense," and the pain you cause her is the "penalty."
penalty: 1: the suffering in person, rights, or property that is annexed by law or judicial decision to the commission of a crime or public offense 2: the suffering or the sum to be forfeited to which a person agrees to be subjected in case of nonfulfillment of stipulations 3 a: disadvantage, loss, or hardship due to some action : a disadvantage (as loss of yardage, time, or possession of the ball or an addition to or subtraction from the score) imposed on a team or competitor for violation of the rules of a sport 4: points scored in bridge by the side that defeats the opposing contract — usually used in plural
It is clear that getting hit is a penalty. Arrow740 19:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- The aim of punishment is to "punish", however the aim of this verse is to "correct" as one can see from previous steps. People beat when they are temporarily angry but the Qur'an asks them to wait for awhile and pass a couple of steps (which makes them cool down). Hitting is the last resort. It is not intended to punish. --Aminz 21:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- Getting hit for bothering your husband is a punishment. Arrow740 21:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- if the wife rebels and then ceases, she is not struck. if the measure was punitive, she would be struck for her initial rebellion. the measure, like the ones preceding it, is reprehensive, designed primarily to stop her and not punish her. that much is obvious. ITAQALLAH 00:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Please read the verse. Also, I'll say again that it is clear, according to the dictionary, that this is punishment. The verse doesn't say you can't hit them straight away, anyway. Muhammad himself did just that with Aisha according to hadith. Arrow740 04:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- That's your interpreatition. --Aminz 04:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- What do you mean? Arrow740 04:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- the verse is quite clear: it is not a punitive measure, as i explained. consulting a dictionary does not bring any further light on the issue. the rest of your argument is irrelevant, as well as incorrect. ITAQALLAH 04:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- What do you mean? Arrow740 04:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- That's your interpreatition. --Aminz 04:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Please read the verse. Also, I'll say again that it is clear, according to the dictionary, that this is punishment. The verse doesn't say you can't hit them straight away, anyway. Muhammad himself did just that with Aisha according to hadith. Arrow740 04:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- if the wife rebels and then ceases, she is not struck. if the measure was punitive, she would be struck for her initial rebellion. the measure, like the ones preceding it, is reprehensive, designed primarily to stop her and not punish her. that much is obvious. ITAQALLAH 00:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Getting hit for bothering your husband is a punishment. Arrow740 21:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Your amusing repetition of the word punitive:
Main Entry: pu·ni·tive Pronunciation: 'pyü-n&-tiv Function: adjective Etymology: French punitif, from Medieval Latin punitivus, from Latin punitus, past participle of punire
- inflicting, involving, or aiming at punishment <severe punitive measures>
does not change the situation. Arrow740 05:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- i know what punitive means, and the directed action is not that, as i have proven. ITAQALLAH 15:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed move
I propose we move this article to "Exegesis of An-Nisa, 34". This would be a more meaningful title, and allow us directly address the topic.Vice regent 17:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- oppose we should be consistent with all articles about a specific quran verse, and that means it should be titled name of sura, followed by the verse.--SefringleTalk 04:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- If you want to be consistent, why not move all these articles to "Exegesis of...".Vice regent 00:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Maulana Muhammad Ali
The above named scholar gives what appears to me to be one of the best renderings, given the varied use of the term. He translates:
"And (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the beds and chastise them."
from: Maulana Muhammad Ali, The Holy Qur'ān: Arabic Text, English Translation and Commentary. Ahmadiyyah Anjuman Isha'at Islam: Lahore, Inc. U.S.A., First Edition 1917, Reprint of Second Revised Edition 1995; pg. 199)
I don't know if that helps with the article, as apparently some do read it as 'beat', but I thought it might be worth mentioning. Aryaman (Enlist!) 18:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
