Talk:Amish

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[edit] Amish in the jungle

I would like to contribute with a link in the Amish article. This year (2006) I have spent a time living with an Amish family in a Bolivian jungle. I did a photographic work about this topic and I think it is quite interesting for the readers of the article.

In case of consense, the link would point to http://www.jordibusque.com/Index/Stories/AmishJungle/AmishJungle_01.html

Probably my contribution was deleted because to link my own website it is a kind of selfpromotion. I agree that to be linked is good for me but I do not sell anything in my website and in my opinion the content is very interesting because it shows a very unknown beehaviour of the amish outside Northamerica. I am sure that to include the link will enrich the quality of the article. But may be you do not think so.

Let me know what do you think.

Panex 13:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

The photos of the Old Colony Mennonites in Bolivia are much more valuable because photos of them are hard to find. As for the Amish photos, I do not say it does not exist, but I have never heard about an Amish community in Bolivia. Is it just one family? The question is are they part of any community, and what kind of Amish are they? What are they doing in Bolivia alone? Their pictures should not be included because they definitely do not represent the typical Amish, especially since this is one family, that I am not so sure is even part of any community. Amish apart from their community, are just people in Amish clothes. Stettlerj 15:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't think we know enough at this point, so let's see what Panex says before jumping to a conclusion that they are just people in Amish dress. And it seems to me that with a few explanatory sentences this might be a good external link illustrating the AMish away from the usual settlement area, for example. So Panex, more information about them would be helpful - what are they doing there, etc. Thank you for wanting to contribute to the article - it is certainly of interest, and perhaps should be included when we have some more information. Tvoz 19:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Before comming to Bolivia something like ten years ago, they were members of an Amish community in Tenesse (USA). What are they doing now in such isolated place? Just live: Let the days pass and wait for the next life! May be this sounds excesively romantic or something like that, but it is just what they think. I would like to explain you a conversation I had with the mother as I remember it: I asked for the reasons they had for to finally decide to settle in such isolated place. She answered like that:

"We just want to be close to God and hope He will take care of us. And we won't find another place with the peace we found here. [...]It doesn't matter to me what happens with my clothes or to my body... It's just temporal! I don't belong here, I'm from Heaven!"

When I hear this last sentence I get goose pimples because I realize that it shows the essence of their thinking! They decided to left everything and came to this isolated place for to feel closer to God. So it is clear that they are not people in Amish dress. They were and are Amish. Of course this is not a typical Amish family, since the main part of Amish live in communities in North America. But it shows how can they react when they feel the presure of the modern world. Panex 23:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Looking over Panex's website, I have to wonder i this is a case of mistaken identity. Amish men don't usually have beards that long, and the kerchief-style coverings worn by the women has more in common with Old Colony Mennonites in other parts of Latin America than what Amish women wear. Amish women usually wear bonnets, not kerchiefs, or coverings in the more modernized groups. It is also difficult to tell whether those are "proper" Amish-style cape-dresses that the women are wearing. I will allow, however, the small possibility that any Amish émigrés to South America might adopt the clothing styles used by other conservative Mennonite groups that have been living in Latin America for generations out of simple climatic pragmatism. As it stands, however, I'm going to say 80% not Amish but rather an ultra conservative Old Colony splinter.
To be sure, I would really like to hear a recording of the type of German they spoke amongst themselves as that would give us a truly definitive answer as to which type of Mennonite they are. Panex - do you have any recordings of that nature? Bytor 04:53, 11 December 2006
Hi Bytor, I should say that they are Amish without question. They told me that. And Mennonites never wears beard. By that time I was also looking for mennonites in that jungle. They told me that the only mennonite family in the zone live 20 km deep in the jungle. There was also another Amish family like one hour on foot from there. They came from an Amish community in Tenesse. Sorry, I have recordings of Mennonites but not of the Amish. Panex 16:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think I have argued the different doubts asked by the community. If nobody says something against in a few more days I will understand there is no oposition to the link. (Panex 17:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC))
I would be opposed to the link. Photos of isolated Amish outside any community, by the very nature of the Amish, should not be included in my opinion, despite their clothes or ethnicity. It is possible however that they are in fellowship with an established community. From time to time there are isolated Amish families but usually because they are the last family to leave a dying settlement and their isolation is temporary. This family is currently in communion with what Amish community, and who is their Bishop and under whose Ordnung are they under? I want to stress I respect this family, and I like the pictures, but I do not believe that their pictures belong until there is an established community there. Stettlerj 17:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, I see that we are already far of a consense about the possibility of adding this link. May be the discussion can be reduced to that: Is a link usefull if presents a behaviour not shared by all the Amish people? I know that Amish who leave their community in order to go far away to live isolated is a minority. But this family is not the only case. There are a few more Amish families in Bolivia living alone. And as I said in a previous comment it shows the way that Amish can react in front social pressure from outside. In my opinion the link will be usefull if is presented like that: Not a common thing but a thing that happens sometimes. Because is not true that Amish ONLY can live inside communities. Let me know what do you think. (Panex 21:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC))


In my opinion, a link would be ok as long as it is prefaced with a statement that says that this is an unusual example of a family who self-identify as Amish, living outside of a traditional Amish community, etc. It would have to be clear that this is an anomaly, but I think it is interesting to include as a parenthetical item. I'm not an expert, but it would seem that living outside of the community away from a bishop and ordnung would not prima facie make you not Amish any longer, but I could be wrong. I don't feel strongly about including the link - it is interesting, but not essential - but I don't think we should reject the concept that these people are Amish. Tvoz 08:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


Thanks Tvoz for let us know your opinion. I would agree in to indicate clearly that this family is not a common Amish family, but it is not the only existing case. I think this case is similar to the Amish and Technology link that presents technological Amish. Of course is not commom thing Amish do but it is real Amish. What I propose is the following:
  • Amish in the jungle Photographic witness of an unusual case of an Amish family who, reacting to external pressure, left their community and went to a Bolivian jungle.
Would be OK that way? What do you think, Stettlerj? In my opinion the witness is valuable, and interesting. Panex 19:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Clearly, there are lots of ex-Amish families, Mennonites who still consider themselves Amish, and individuals associated with the Amish community who are not accepted members of any Amish church. I have almost convinced myself that we need a Who is Amish? article, like the Who is a Jew? artticle. Perhaps this family could be addressed within this context. Its a thought anyway. Wachholder0 20:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it Ok if I put the link for the time being? In case you agree, what link category would be the best fit? Let me know your opinion, please. Panex 17:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

These "Amish in the Jungle" are friends of mine, J. and S. Beiler. They are not officially Amish, and the congregation at Lobelville Tn (many of the members there are excommunicated from Old order churches) where they came from is an "offshoot" of the Amish and would not officially be a part of the Old or New Order groups. However, both the Beiler family and the Lobelville congregation would fall under the general heading of Anabaptist, or even "Amish" to an outsider. mikeatnip —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.142.130.43 (talk) 02:33, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Laundry

I am moving the following inline comment placed in the article here for discussion. I believe it refers to the laundry image. ✤ JonHarder talk 02:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

What does Amish laundry got to do with any of this, except that an Amish fellow has probably put the laundry there? The laundry seems quite normal and normally put to me, you can't really see any kind of clothing schemes as full from the picture properly as they are wet and folded and laundry is not discussed in the article. And who really cares of Amish laundry in the first place, especially since the talk page says that they still use electronical washing machines? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.112.185.239 (talk • contribs) 19:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
I agree: it does not appear to contribute much to the article. --Thisisbossi 03:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I concur and have removed it. As always, please feel free to revert and discuss. Wachholder0 03:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Groups sometimes confused with the Amish

Hello everyone. Lou Sander recently pointed out that there is little substance to the "groups sometimes confused with the Amish" section. I agree, and feel that an unsourced list of erroneous beliefs is a poor addition to an encyclopedia article. The chances of anyone mistaking a Mormon or modern Quaker for a member of the Old Order Amish community seem low. Perhaps some of the information about the similarities between Hutterites and the Old Order Amish should be moved to another section, and the rest removed. Thanks for your thoughts. Wachholder0 20:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest rewriting from the perspective of distinguishing Amish from other present-day plain groups in the same geographic region. I would like to see the following removed in this process:
  • the revisit of Amish and Anabaptist history.
  • mention of Hutterites because they are are geographically separated for the most part.
  • mention of Quakers because I doubt there is a source that indates present-day confusion.
  • movie title translation because it is a bit of trivia that does not add to understanding of the topic.
✤ JonHarder talk 00:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amish Food and Recipes

It would be nice if anyone knows about the cuisine of the Amish. I know that region is known for some dishes like scrapple, but would love to expand in this area. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jsderwin (talk • contribs) 10:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Not quite accurate

I don't know if its still possible to edit this article or not, but growing up in Amish country, I can say that at least in my hometown area a blue door doesn't mean anything at all, other than that they like the color(a girl in my class had a father who used to be old order Amish) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clippen (talk • contribs) 03:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Health Section

Should we put the entire well-written and fair, in my opinion, Abuse Controversy section into the health section or keep where it is? I do not want to hide this important section, but at present I wonder if giving it such prominence (it's own main section, more important than language, etc.) looks a little sensationalist (waiting for similar section for other denominations... "lay southern baptist church member abuse controversies", or lists on Cathlicism page of "lay Catholic church members who are convicted murderers" sections. I suppose if everyone was Amish and it was the Amish who wrote the wikipedia these sections might exist :) Stettlerj 00:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well-reasoned, Stettler, you get my vote to do it. DavidOaks 03:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
You know, this has bothered me for months - yes, please make the change. Good call. Tvoz | talk 04:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who is an Amish

I agree quite strongly in favour of an "Who is an Amish?" article. For example, my maternal grandparents grew up in Beachy Amish-associated churches, but when they were married they started attending a congregation in the then Western Ontario Amish Mennonite Conference. That was also the conference from which my paternal grandparents came. The WOAMC and the Beachy Amish associated churches both derived from the Old Order Amish community in Ontario and there was much "cross pollination," so to speak. A few years before I was born the WOAMC dropped the "Amish" from their name and eventually merged with two other conference to become what is now The Mennonite Church Eastern Canada. Approximately half of my larger extended family, which gathers yearly for family reunions on both sides, are still part of that Beachy Amish group, dress conservatively and use Pennsylvania Dutch at home. My personal understanding of PD is limited, but the core of who I understand myself to be is Amish. Indeed, cultural practices such as how my family celebrates Christmas, Easter and other holidays, weddings, funerals, the foods we cook, regulat large family reunions, are all Amish. The largest difference between me and my conservatively dressed relatives is not in faith, politics, cuisine or that stuff, but in how we dress. We agree, both culturally & religiously, on far more than on what we disagree. And I'm not the only person in this situation. Similar spectra exist across the Amish Mennonite world. One would not split French Canadians (or Italian Americans, Chinese Canadians, etc...) into separate ethnic groups just because some members are not as socially conservative or liberal as others. So why is that done with the Amish? In the past (March '06, Feb '07) I have tried to add a one or two sentence minor edit acknowledging that this Wikipedia article is primarily about the visibly conservative buggy-driving Amish and the existance of more liberal Amish. However, my edits are always deleted or seriously weakened with no comment by the changer. If somebody wants to start an "Who is an Amish" article, I will help with it. Bytor 10:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for reverting you twice earlier. Reading your explanation, I see where you are coming from and about the WOMC and retention of the label "Amish" I agree with you. I also agree that there is so much more to being Amish than no electricity, etc. That is just what the people see. But culture is more than just clothes and ordnung, it is the food, the language, the traditions, a way of looking at life, a way one interacts with others, an attitiude.. those of Amish descendance often retain these Amish characteristics that are more profound. I don't know how to put it in the article without it being "original research" but what you say I could not agree with more. Stettlerj 17:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I think this issue has been discussed sufficiently in scholarly sources that a new article would not be WP:OR. But there is only one way to find out, I suppose, and that's to write it! Please feel free to jump in once I get it started. Wachholder0 18:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The Amish identity article has been summoned into existence. This is also a golden opportunity to transfer material out of the every-lengthening general Amish article. Wachholder0 19:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I personally do not agree with an Amish identity article. I think it would be wiser to do it another way, because by far most Mennonites and Mennonite communities who are of Amish origin have lost this Amish identity, and do not have it. I think therefore a better way to deal with it would be to refer to these groups as "Amish-Mennonites" (which already exists) and this article already deals with Mennonite communities of Amish origin. This was their historical nomenclature anyway. I would personally oppose an "Amish Identity" page but perhaps there are good arguments, but I personally would not see the necessity of it. Stettlerj 22:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amish Mennonite

Do what you want. I know Wachholder you are a good contributer, but I believe the label "Amish Mennonite" introduces a lot of confusion, especially since this title has designated various Amish groups that are not Old Order (to the exclusion of the Old Order) such as the Beachy and those that have merged with the Mennonites (because the greater article hardly deals with the "Amish Mennonites"... and introducing these terms as equals (which they can be on occasion, but usually not) is especially disorienting... so as I say, it introduces confusion. Larger problem, I still don't understand why Amish is listed as an ethnic group when everywhere else it is a religious community. In fact, Amish as an ethnic group... you could write an article about those who descend from the Amish but you would have to change the entire article, since most of those of Amish ancestry have computers, cars, wear modern clothes etc. At least I hope people know this is wikipedia and they should take everything with a grain of salt. But again, do what you want. Unfortunately, people (including myself on occasion) use wikipedia as a source. :) Stettlerj 00:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

You know, Wachholder, the more I think about it, the more I think this article should actually be entitled "Old Order Amish" and then the "Amish Mennonite" article should be the "Amish as an ethnic group" article. That is the CAMEO usage. They use "Amish Mennonite" for all those of Amish descendance. This article deals almost exclusively with "Old Order Amish", (and deals hardly at all with Mennonites of Amish origin or with Beachy Amish - of whom there are more than there are Old Order Amish... for example "Amish Mennonites" in the CAMEO definition of the term exist in Germany, Switzerland, France, as well, and many more Amish communities lost their Amish identity in North America than kept it). Anyway, anyone who knows the Amish knows that the Amish don't bode well for generalities and it is not easy to make statements about the Amish that hold true everywhere. Since wikipedia is written by committee perhaps nothing much can be done. Those that really want to know about the Amish, please see CAMEO, not wikipedia... although there is a lot of good info in this article I think. Stettlerj 00:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
For example, if this were "Amish" or "Amish Mennonite" as an ethnic group, the intro should be as follows:
The Amish (IPA: ˈɑːmɪʃ) or Amish Mennonites[1] are descendants of Amish Anabaptist Christians in the United States, Canada (Ontario, Manitoba, Alberta, British Columbia) and Europe (Switzerland, France, Germany, Luxembourg) that are historically known for their plain dress and among the most traditional of their continued use of limited use of modern conveniences such as automobiles and electricity. The most traditional Amish separate themselves from mainstream society for religious reasons: they do not join the military, they draw no Social Security, nor do they accept any form of financial assistance from the government, and many avoid insurance.
Most historically spoke, and the Old Order continue to speak, a German dialect known as Pennsylvania Dutch (or Pennsylvania German) at home and in church services, and learnt English in school. The most traditional Amish are divided into separate fellowships consisting of geographical districts or congregations. The most liberal Amish have merged with the Mennonite Church during the first half of the 20th century. In the traditional groups, each district is fully independent and has its own Ordnung, or set of unwritten rules. This article primarily discusses the conservative Old Order Amish fellowships that observe strict regulations on dress, behavior, and the use of technology. There are many New Order Amish and Beachy Amish groups that use electricity and, in the case of the Beachy Amish, automobiles, but still consider themselves Amish. There are also many Mennonite communities of Amish descent.
Sorry this is so long, but I think it is important to discuss just what this article is supposed to be about, the Amish as a contemporary religious group, or the Amish and Amish Mennonites as an ethnic group which includes such groups as the Mennonites in Switzerland and Illinois, etc. of Amish origin. Stettlerj 00:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you have hit the nail on the head. The current "Amish" article is pretty much all about the Old Order Amish. Transferring the bulk of this material to the Old Order Amish page, and making the Amish article a more general discussion of the different groups considered Amish, would negate the need for the "Amish identity/who is Amish" article. The revised Amish article would include the history of the Amish before they split into different groups, and include brief descriptions leading to the following articles:

  1. Old Order Amish- new home of most of the material in the current article
  2. Amish Mennonites (split ~1880s)
  3. Beachy Amish (split 1927)
  4. New Order Amish (split 1966)

Perhaps it would also be useful to mention people of Amish or Mennonite descent or heritage, since they could be ethnically (or "genetically") Amish. Also, I see why you object to the inclusion of "Amish Mennonite" in the intro and will remove it until it can be included in a more suitable spot. Wachholder0 14:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I have created a draft as an example of what such a revision would look like. I think I may have removed too much material, but take a look and see what you think: Amish (draft)
I've thought about this also: how this page is really about OOA. One problem with the proposed change is that most people equate Amish and OOA and this article will continually have to be cleaned of bits about OOA that people have added because they think it is missing. I'm not opposed to changing how these articles are factored and will support whatever the consensus develops. Another possibility is to have an Amish (disambiguation) article that lists the types as above and then just redirect OOA here. That way most people will find what they are expecting when they come to either article. ✤ JonHarder talk 22:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The Amish (disambiguation) page seemed the best and simplest solution. Please take a look and add (or subtract) material as you see fit. I want to thank all the regular editors, both for their input on this topic and their general patience with my mercurial editing style. Sto lat! Wachholder0 15:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

To finish the job, I believe it is appropriate to incorporate anything of value from Old Order Amish and then make that page into a redirect that points here. ✤ JonHarder talk 22:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'll do that.Wachholder 15:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. There did not seem to be more than a few paragraphs in the OOA article that needed to be transferred; the rest was duplicated material.Wachholder 15:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wisconsin

I added Wisconsin to the Regions with significant populations list. According to this site: http://www.suite 101.com/article.cfm/wisconsin/111488, Wisconsin has at least the 4th largest population (and growing). Also see http://dhfs.wisconsin.gov/medicaid8/state-grant/amish_project/apindex.htm. Do I need to mention Wisconsin v. Yoder? -- Al™ 04:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kingpin?

didn't kingpin have a litle about the amish? just asking not telling. feel free to delete this —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.219.195.40 (talk) 01:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it did and it is already mentioned. --Bossi (talk ;; contribs) 02:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:23, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Claiping

I've searched for more information on the word claip and claiping at Webster's, Wiktionary, and Wikipedia, and haven't found any reference to this word. Searching for it here only brings back this article, it's not mentioned anywhere else. Is this a real term? Dubkiller 02:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Will this do?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=claip

DavidOaks 17:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I saw it listed in Urban Dictionary, but I don't think it can be used as a reliable reference for word definitions. I've since removed the term from the main article, but the info remains intact. Dubkiller 18:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] amish on vacation

After reading about the Amish lifestyle here, I was wondering if these things have not changed in recent years. I met a group of Amish people vacationing at Niagara Falls last summer. True, this is a nature site, but it is very commercialized and would involve transportation by means other than a horse and buggy. Would someone care to enlighten me?--Gilabrand 06:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Read the "technology" section of the article. There is no prohibition against taking trains, buses, taxis, etc.Wachholder 18:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pacifism

Amish pacifism is well known in popular culture, but I didn't see anything on it in this entry. Can anyone knowledgeable add something on this subject? BaikinMan 16:15, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amish blog

I would like to propose this complete, always updated and incredibly well informed blog dedicated to Amish people in the external links section.

http://amishamerica.typepad.com/

Let me know your opinion. Panex 20:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

If nobody says anything against, I'll put the link in a few days. Panex 19:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority are to be avoided according to the manual of style guidelines. I see no reason for an exception here. ✤ JonHarder talk 04:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I have seen many links to blogs in Wikipedia, and not precisely written by authorities... Is quite strange this kind of policies here. In my opinion the suggested blog is very useful because of the overwhelming quantity and quality of the information it provides. And is made by somebody living inside the place, someone who has been working with Amish people for many years, rather than someone who have learned only from books.
I think we are loosing a great source here and may be there are more people thinking the same way. If there is I think they should express their opinion. Thanks. Panex 07:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It is indeed interesting, and I salute you for discussing proposed changes. JonH has a strong point, however, that blogs are very, very rarely acceptable links, and I believe this is a valuable floodgate. Googlin' for Amish america returns you 3rd, and 1st for "Amish america", so I think your blog may reach interested people without wikipedia's help, and interested wikipedia reader can reach your blog without a link. Sincere regards, and happy travels. Wachholder 06:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I just want to point that I am not who writes this blog. I'm just a reader of it. Also that I think that it doesn't matter in which position appears in Google in order to be useful for wikipedia. Panex 16:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello,

From time to time I read these threads and must say I appreciate that so much work goes into making this entry as good as it can be. Having noticed that some discussion had ensued on whether to include a link to my blog, amishamerica.typepad.com, I’d like to humbly make the case for its inclusion.

I write the blog with two purposes in mind: to 1) disseminate accurate information on the Amish and related peoples, and 2) to entertain my readers. While I’m not so sure I always succeed in the second endeavor, I take great pains to make sure I do so in the first.

My credibility: While I make no claims to be a Kraybill or Hostetler, I do have a measure of experience with the Amish that I feel is above the norm. Mainly by virtue of a business I have run in Amish communities, to this point I have visited approximately 5,700 Amish families in 15 separate settlements.

That may sound like an exaggeration but I can assure that it is correct--granted, many of those were very brief meetings, yet others have developed into deeper relationships. All have contributed to my firsthand knowledge of the Amish--I have eaten at their tables, attended their worship services, sat in at school, worked in the fields, talked for hours with Amish ministers and bishops, and so on. I have pored over the church directories they publish and dug into the theological disputes that have caused so many splits over the years. I feel extremely fortunate for the opportunities to learn that I have had and feel that they have contributed greatly to my understanding of the people. It has turned out to be a life’s calling so I do it all with great joy.


I actively expand my knowledge by reading recognized authorities, both Amish and non-Amish, and seeking out information firsthand, ‘from the source’ as you might put it. Reading through my blog you will frequently notice citations to my sources.

Currently I spend my days with the Amish of Holmes County, Ohio, taking advantage of some free time before teaching begins again. I am doing research for a book I am writing on Amish-owned businesses and to this point have conducted approximately 35 interviews, some up to two hours long, with local Amish entrepreneurs.


I take care to make sure that the information included on my blog is accurate and, in light of the amount of questionable material on the internet, take very seriously the responsibility to portray the people in a respectful manner. So many Amish have told me that they dislike being ‘placed on a pedestal’, as the tendency is with some media pieces and casual onlookers--so with this in mind, while drawing lessons from their lives I take care to represent the human element at the same time. Paraphrasing an Amish friend’s comments after church service this past Sunday: ‘We’re the same as you, we just have different wrappers’.

I realize that blogs are not often included as links. At the same time, if the purpose of the links section is to bring to readers outlets for accurate, timely information on the topic at hand, I am highly confident that a link to my blog would serve to do exactly that, and that interested readers would benefit as a result.

To have a link to Amish America included here would be an honor and again I humbly request that it be included. Thanks to Panex for proposing it and thanks to the group for considering it.

Erik Wesner Amish America 15:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Do Amish have dogs?

I like to know since I'm sota currently researching it in someway. And so what Dog breed are they then? -Jana

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.241.29.58 (talk) 17:54, 31 August 2007

Very definitely they keep dogs: as pets, vermin-control and hunters. I don't know if they consciously keep them for protection -- that would be a good research question. I've known them to have all different kinds of dogs, and I know one family that raises chiuauaus (uh, sp?) for profit. I do not know that there's any breed the Amish are more likely to favor than another. But now that I look at this, I seem to be reporting original research. Not aware of print or web sources that could help. DavidOaks 20:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Firearms?

Do the Amish use firearms? —Lowellian (reply) 16:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes -- there is no prohibition on hunting. However, they would be ulikely to think of these as weapons for personal defense, nor would they engage in competitive shooting.
DavidOaks 12:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps that should be mentioned in the article, under the "Modern technology" section? —Lowellian (reply) 03:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ethics of using images containing the faces of Amish people in this Wikipedia article

I was a little taken aback by the picture currently on this article, "Amish family at Niagara Falls in traditional dress". It's a fine picture, don't get me wrong. However, these people likely have little way of ever finding out that their image is on the Internet presented as the example of what typical Amish people look like. If you follow the first link off Google searching for Amish as I did, this is the first thing you see. It's likely that they might have some objections, I would imagine. Is there a replacement image that might make more sense? --75.165.51.172 02:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that could be a copyright issue, but I don't see anything like that described in the copyright policies. Honestly, though, I don't think it adds much to the article. -Steve Sanbeg 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Since the image really doesn't provide any context anyways, and is poorly-framed even from a photographer's POV, I'm going to be bold and remove it. Hopefully we can find some other images to replace it. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 00:44, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Why? I don't know why we should care about any hypothetical objections the subjects might have. And there is no copyright issue, all you need to do is look at the image page to see that. We're not claiming fair use so it doesn't need to be important to the article. The only criterion that should matter is whether the article is even slightly better with it than without it. And I think it is. -- Zsero (talk) 01:10, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] beachy link

I would like to add the link www.beachyam.org.its a beachy website set up by a beachy convert(yes,the beachys do use computers,cars,cd players and electricity).it feel its important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoppyDadswell (talk • contribs) 20:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logic

The article states that the amish reject modern labor-saving technology because it may cause a person to be less dependant on the community and more individualistic. In fact, the opposite is true. the level of technology modern society has achieved can only exist under conditions of extreme division of labor. for example, how many farmers build their own tractors? in order to be truly independent from a given community, an individual would have to become dependant on simpler technologies he can create and have control over without help from things produced by that community. by this logic, the amish are actually quite individualistic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.91.136 (talk) 20:35, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rumm-shpringa?

I wondered about the concept of "rumm-shpringa", the oft mentioned, little understood period of license given to Amish boys to go "sow their wild oats" and sample the English life. I can see how that sort of thing could be exaggerated by the misinformed, but I think, for exactly that reason, WP ought to at least mention the idea, what it is and what it's not. Some references to get it started: http://www.amish.net/faq.asp -- Search in page "rumm" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.252.107 (talk) 20:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Er, have you actually read the article? It's well covered there. -- Zsero (talk) 20:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mennonite?

Under "religions" in the sidebar, only Anabaptist is mentioned, but many Amish are of Mennonite affiliation (for example much of the Amish community in Southern Ontario near Kitchener). Should this be added? Kristamaranatha (talk) 20:19, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Mennonites are anabaptists. -- Zsero (talk) 20:44, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
That's true, but Mennonites are their own denomination. The church says "Mennonite Church" on the front instead of "Anabaptist Church." Kristamaranatha (talk) 23:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
And Amish are their own "denomination" too. Anabaptist is the kind of Xian that both Mennonites and Amish are. -- Zsero (talk) 03:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are there any Amish Communties in Texas?

I like to know about it since i'm curious about it somewhat. I think on another website i read on a like of where amish people are in the united states, which it listed texas as one of these. I'm curious in part because of that. So please answer me and remember not to get it confused with the Mennonites and such.65.68.73.142

[edit] At what age do Amish usually marry?

That's what I originally came to this article to find out. I suggest adding this to the Marriage section: "Most Amish youth marry between the age of nineteen and twenty-five." I eventually found this answer here: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.159.37.194 (talk) 21:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction with page on Rumspringa

This is my first time posting a comment in discussion, so let me know if I've flubbed protocol somewhere.

In Rumspringa#Leaving_the_community there is the statement: It is very common for those individuals who choose not be baptized into the church to be shunned by their community and even by their own families.

However, in Amish#Baptism.2C_rumspringa.2C_and_shunning there is this statement: Those young people who choose to leave the church prior to being baptized are usually not shunned, and may maintain close contact with their families.

I myself have no clue as to which statement is correct, but thought I'd point it out to those of you who might. Ray scheel (talk) 22:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Good eye, Ray. I tagged both for verification. I will see if I can find a reliable source for one or the other. If not, I suggest both be deleted.DavidOaks (talk) 00:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Man there's a lot of jive on the subject of the Amish generally, and rumspringa and shunning more particularly. There are sites by wackjobs and commercializers and self-appointed experts with obvious signs of unreliability saying both things. The nearest thing to a reliable source was the author of the novel "The Shunning" [2] that supports the version in Amish (that is, no shunning for the unbaptized). However, I'm not sure that a novelist is a good source for ethnography, especially with a matter surrounded by secrecy and voyeurism like this. I've got some books at the office that may or may not help. Meanwhile, we can strip the claims or put in what this writer says, with the source. I leave it for wikiconsensus. DavidOaks (talk) 00:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)