Talk:Amerigo Vespucci

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[edit] Article name & ship

Insane Unknwon should be moved back to Amerigo Vespucci with a disambiguatino block at the top. Also shouldn't Amerigo Vespucci (ship) be listed under somethink akin to (but oviously not) RMS Amerigo Vespucci. Mintguy, 10:44, 6 Feb 2004

Yeah, the disambig block at the top had occurred to me. Cretainly would have been easier. However, "Amerigo Vespucci" is amon sailing ship buffs clearly a refernce to the ship, and not in particular to the person. Also, the ship is so well-known that many people will intuitively identify the name "Amerigo Vespucci" with the ship. (Of course, that depends on context, too.) I believe it's an eponym, and I thought moving the person to Amerigo Vespucci (explorer) and making an up-front disambuguation page was more appropriate.
As to the page title: I know the ship project wants to use these "RMS foo" names, but then, they are more concerned about modern-era warships. (Or so I gathered.) The classical sailing ships are, however, known by their names in the first place — at least today. I do not think anything would be gained by moving it either to something like "Italian schoolship Amerigo Vespucci" or "Amerigo Vespucci A5312" (A 5312 is its Italian Navy number).
Lupo 11:20, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC) (Oh, and BTW, I added your sig above.)

Well this is a general purpose encyclopaedia not a sailing ship spotters book and for 99% of people who have heard of the name Amerigo Vespucci we're talking about the explorer not the eponymous ship. See Julius Caesar for a similar example. Mintguy (T) 21:27, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I also agree that this should be moved back. Most links to Amerigo Vespucci will most likely be for the explorer, not the ship. --Minesweeper 23:05, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Letters

A nice fact to add would be when the letters started circulating. What are the earliest known versions or dates for references to them? Rmhermen 16:39, May 10, 2004 (UTC)

Dates added. Nurg 10:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Anyone know if the letters can be found online? All i could find was this http://slought.org/content/410241/, but the text is not readable. Fuelbottle | Talk 02:48, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Henry

Is Amerigo an Italian version of Henry? -- Error 03:29, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The Henry page says that Enrico is, so possibly, but I don't know how relible this information is... Gady 15:45, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Enrico is Henry, but I suspect that Arrigo and Amerigo are alternate forms. Aymeric was an Occitanian name, probably related. -- Error 00:33, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have seen that Amerigo is the Italian form of "Amalric" and that therefore the English equivalent is "Emery."

Ardric47 03:09, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

While reading about an unrelated subject earlier today, an appendix in Cokayne's The Complete Peerage implied that Haimrich, Emery, and Amerigo are all the same name. Ardric47 05:49, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Genoese

Amerigo Vespucci March 9, 1454–February 22, 1512) was a Genoese merchant, navigator, and sea explorer who voyaged to and wrote about the Americas.

why was Genoese removed? --Melaen 12:12, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I don't know why, but shouldn't we also remove "navigator" and "sea explorer"? There seems to be no certain evidence that Vespucci really knew how to navigate, or indeed ever commanded a ship, much less an expedition. He certainly was on the voyage of Hojeda in 1499, and probably also on the voyage of Coelho. But perhaps as no more than a gentleman volunteer, or supernumerary. His real claim to fame is his book, in which he asserts that lands across the Atlantic are a new continent, rather than part of east Asia.

Also, his alleged celestial longitude determination of 1499 is known fraudulent. Since this is accepted uncritically elsewhere, I'm going to set the record straight.

Keithpickering 2 March 2005

[edit] fraudulent claim?

Vespucci claimed, in a letter to Lorenzo di Medici, that he determined his longitude celestially on August 23, 1499, while on this voyage. But his claim is clearly fraudulent, which casts more doubt on Vespucci's credibility.

why is this 'clearly fraudulent'? just wondering. (clem 20:28, 7 May 2005 (UTC))

I agree, this needs expansion. Kundor 08:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
17-March-2007: I have changed the text to "might be fraudulent" plus footnote about identifying stars on horizon at continental shelf (no ocean swells/waves). The opinions of letters as "fraudulent" open debate: see below #Too smart to be true. -Wikid77 16:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alberigo

I've heard that his first name originally was Alberigo. Anyone here know if this is true? --k

Who knows. It has claimed that his real name was Emerich Despuig.

[edit] Named after Emeric of Hungary?

After the 1930s Hungarian expats in the U.S. started to claim that Vespucci's parents named him after Emeric of Hungary.

Thanks, nyenyec ☎ 15:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is the information in this article reliable?

I'm not sure. The claim that "....his letters led Martin Waldseemüller to name the new continent America" is contentious. See Martin Waldseemüller & Naming of America.
Also "His exploratory journeys along the eastern coastline of South America convinced him that a new continent had been discovered, a bold contention in his day..." Very bold, at least without some explanation. The article as it is, while noting controversy surrounding his reputation, simultaneously invites us to marvel at it, without it being clear why. Curious...
Hakluyt bean 01:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Having read extensively on the subject, this article needs to make it more clear it was highly probable at least two of Vespucci's voyages may have been fictitious. He was a famous elaborator and was predominantly motivated by his desire "to be famous for many an age". He reworks the material in the familiar letters which give an obvious impression of falsity in the Mundus Novus and Lettera to Piedro Soderini. This article appears to be eulogizing him, perhaps because his name was adopted as the title of a certain country???

VP, Cambridge

[edit] Impacto sobre o descobrimento do Brasil!!!

why was Amerigo Vespucci bad? Please help, i need it for a project! Lil Kimberly


[edit] Hojeda

Who's this Hojeda bloke? Jooler 08:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. It's Alonso de Ojeda. Nurg 07:14, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vespucci's name

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/tudors/americaname_01.shtml

According to the above article, and indeed an episode of QI I caught a while ago, the name of America is not constituted from the clasically taught facts. It is according to the above research, of Welsh origin.

Indeed it's the most logical etymology, but turns out all the naming of America theories are imperfect. See the naming of America and Richard Amerike for more info :) Hakluyt bean 18:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Someone vandalized this but I changed it.--Sir james paul 01:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too smart to be true

17-March-2007: Vespucci couldn't be that smart? The tone of the article before 2007 seemed to imply Vespucci claims were exaggerated or "obviously fraudulent" because Amerigo Vespucci would be too smart to be true (?). The references need to be screened: the existence of Eratosthenes, Plato+Archimedes, Galileo, Bach, Mozart+friends, Tchaikowsky, Isaac Newton, and Einstein+Mileva have shown that some people/pairs are "too smart to be true" but are. The article states that Vespucci and another cartographer (Juan de la Cosa) sailed together on the first voyage. The synergistic intelligence between the 2 cartographers (people who "see" the celestial equator running through "Orion's belt") might be difficult for some to comprehend, even in the 21st century. Note that Cleopatra VII spoke 7 languages, and her astronomer Sosigenes fixed the Roman calendar to handle leapyears for almost a thousand years: "Many heroes lived before Agamemnon" (some ancient people were much smarter than thousands today).

That article about Amerigo Vespucci triggers overall concerns about the reliability of the whole reference base about Vespucci. I have added a footnote to explain finding "longitude celestially" by charting horizon stars, at sea along the continental shelf, but the entire article seems iffy and in need of overhaul. -Wikid77 18:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Catalan

I heard in a couple of places that Vespucci was Catalan and that his real Catalan name was Aymeric Despuig or Aimeric Despuig. Those sources, however, aren't anywhere near what Wikipedia and myself consider reliable.

The Catalan Wikipedia and Enciclopèdia Catalana gives his name in the regular Italian spelling.

Still, i'm curious - is there any ground to that claim? Or is it just a legend developed by Catalans who go too far claiming that Spanish, French and Italian historians intentionally diminished the role of Catalans in the history of Europe? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Amerigo

Amerigo is my person for my explorer for my 3rd grade project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.120.221 (talk) 00:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

hello —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.31.126 (talk) 22:27, 13 May 2008 (UTC)