Talk:American Robin

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Good article American Robin has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
February 1, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
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"Birds poisoning their young" is from http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/1/1/3/8/11384/11384-h/11384-h.htm and needs to be validated against current orinthological knowledge. Samw 19:04, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Robin or Thrush

Is this bird a thrush that was misnamed robin? Or is "robin" just a name? 4.143.233.83 (talk) 23:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)rich

I would think that when settlers saw them, they saw the red breast and went "Robin!" Liam Markham (talk) 17:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Migration

I think someone who knows about them should add a section about robins that don't migrate. I live in Milwaukee and we do have year round robins here although most do fly south for the winter? Why don't those fly south? 4.143.233.83 (talk) 23:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)rich

Bold text==Who builds the nest?== The article says "As with many migratory birds, the males return to the summer breeding grounds before the females and compete with each other for nesting sites. The females then select mates based on the males' songs and the desirability of the nests they have built."

However, both the dead-tree references I own, and all websites I've checked say some variation on the female doing most of the nest-building.[1]american robins are cool.[2] And the person who added that text hasn't made an edit since April, so it would probably be futile to ask on their Talk page. Niteowlneils 8 July 2005 01:37 (UTC)

Text corrected, and ref given. jimfbleak 8 July 2005 05:51 (UTC)

I've been watching a nest of four eggs for at least 10 days. It's only about four feet off the ground in an abrovita. The parents fly to the nest but don't stay long. Do the adults sleep in the nest, as I assumed, or somewhere else? I thought the mother had to sit on the eggs, as a chicken does. Anyway, I'll keep watching.

the female will sleep on the eggs at night. The eggs may be left during the day as long as it is warm enough. jimfbleak 05:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

2008 - I'm in Michigan with a Robins nest of three eggs just outside my front door about 7ft off the ground tucked in a corner on top of a piece of a closed gutter... one egg was laid on May 9th shorthly after the nest was completed by HER. By May 12th there were three eggs. Both the Male and the Female take turns sitting on the eggs at all diff times of the day, even when it's warm out. Since May 9th every night around 11pm I check on the nest. Starting May 12th evening I have seen either him or her on the nest every night. Whats strange is when I check on them in the evening they do not fly away when I open the door. However, during the day, when I open the door and they are on the nest they immediately fly to the closest tree and begin to badger me verbally for disrupting them. If they aren't sitting on the nest day time when I walk outside, one or both is watching from a tree about 30 feet away and again freak out verbally with agitated chirps while bouncing around the tree. Lastly, if it is only one watching the nest from the tree, it takes only several min for the other one to fly back and assist in the verbal protection of their soon to be young. Kerri cat5869@comcast.net

[edit] Spelling

I've noticed that there's been some editing back and forth about the spelling of "fledging". My understanding was that "fledging" was a verb, used to describe the action of the mother caring for her young birds...and that the word "fledgling" was a noun referring to the young birds...should we change it back to fledgling? or am I mistaken here?

You are right! jimfbleak 05:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification?

The article presently says: Bird banders have found that only 25% of young robins survive the first year. Is this claim literally true, or is the proper claim that only 25% of banded young robins survive through their first year? Certainly it would be possible to splice statistics on younger birds to those banded birds, but was this in fact done? —SlamDiego 16:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

As of 4 February 2008, the article says: "The gestation period of the female is 40 days." Could someone knowledgeable about birds comment on gestation? Looking at the wikipedia article on gestation, there is no mention of gestation for birds. It is my impression that the term gestation is inappropriate for birds and that the term incubation applies to birds. In the context of this wikipedia article, does gestation refer to the time from mating until an egg is laid? If so, the article could say "About 40 days passes after mating until an egg is laid." I have not found a reference for this, though. Also, I have read elsewhere that robins lay one egg per day and that the female typically lays 4 eggs, sometimes 5. Three eggs were not mentioned unless an egg breaks, in which case the female often lays another egg. If correct, that seems appropriate to add to the article. — JonEAhlquist 4 Feb 2008 (I am a meteorologist and am no relation to the Jon E. Ahlquist who is the bird expert who worked with Charles Sibley.)

gestation unsourced anyway, also improbable, so removed Jimfbleak (talk) 06:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
First three reputable sites I checked all said 3-5. [3] [4] [5]
I think "I read somewhere" is a bit flimsy reason to change text! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimfbleak (talk • contribs) 07:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] To Do towards GA/FA etc

This is quite a meaty article and shouldn't need too much to get to GA/FA. We should have a discussion on images - in text vs gallery. In general for Featured Content the consensus has been sparing use of images through the text, while the gallery is in essence located on Commons (and hence we're promoting Commons by the link). cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:59, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

That sounds good - images, I mean. I moved some of them out of the text because they were making the section formatting weird. Does anyone have sources for the vocalization section? If we can get at least one in there, that would be good. Also, I think the lead needs to be expanded - I'll start that now. Corvus coronoides talk 01:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Great idea. Generally as the text beefs up we get room for images. I am getting some refs for folklore stuff - can get others soon. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I found one for the Canadian 2-dollar bill. I'm not sure that it's an excellent source, though. This link was somewhat useful, but all it says is "robins," so I figured we needed a source that was more specific. Corvus coronoides talk 01:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
That's fine - it is unequivocally a robin and no-one who knows anything about birds would challenge it.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
It won't get through GA without taxonomy, methinks, I've started the section and will add subspecies from Clements later, I've also done a first copy edit, but there's more to do Jimfbleak (talk) 08:23, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I've also kicked off "status" Jimfbleak (talk) 08:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Can your "Status" section be merged into "Distribution and habitat?" Corvus coronoides talk 02:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I've no strong opinion, but it's been separate (sometimes under the heading "Conservation" for threatened species) in several previous GA/FAs. If it can't be extended, maybe merge? Jimfbleak (talk) 07:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I thought a subheading under distribution and habitat was appropriate. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Lead needs work -no mention of nest or voice, but trivia like "state bird of ..." Also nothing on brood/external/internal parasites Jimfbleak (talk) 07:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree, ain't looked at it really yet.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
PS: I just left a note [6] to see if anyone had any further stuff on folklore etc. to put in. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I've tweaked the lead a bit. As for the "state bird of... " bit, would it be appropriate to add that to the "In culture" section or no? Speaking of which, can "In culture" be renamed to something a little more sophisticated sounding? I know we used "Cultural depictions of ravens" for the Common Raven. Even something like "Robins in culture" sounds better to me than "In culture." Corvus coronoides talk 23:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

MoS doesn't like the article name to be repeated in heading. I think to get to GA now,

  1. "culture" needs some work, but as a Brit I have no sources
  2. "description" looks a bit thin to me, needs more detail
  3. gallery needs to go, images moved into article or lost, commons checked

However, I'm going to be too busy to do any of the above myself now (also want to do a bit on the real robin) (-: Jimfbleak (talk) 07:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, well, I fleshed out "description" a bit and removed the gallery. As for "culture," I happen to be an American, but I'm an American student, and I have no sources. I've never heard of the robin having any cultural significance before seeing the Tlingit bit in this article. As a student, I don't think any of the sources I can get my hands on will be of much use and a quick search at my local library gets me children's books and field guides. Does anyone know of any specific references to robins in culture that just need a reference? I might be able to come up with that online. Corvus coronoides talk 15:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I did some minor copy editing to the article to help out. If anyone has any extra tasks in helping with this article, let me know and I'll try to lend a hand. --ZeWrestler Talk 17:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
thanks for that. Does any one know if AmRob has any particularly close relatives in the genus. Despite its size, Clement treats it as fairly homogenous, really only mentioning the Blackbird/Island Thrush link (other than discussing species-level splits0? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimfbleak (talk • contribs) 13:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Um, I remember from working on Wood Thrush that there is some source that says that the two are closely related. I'm not sure how, though. Corvus coronoides talk 17:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I've found two papers from 2005 and 2007 which I've added - welcome to Africa! Jimfbleak (talk) 06:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) I haven't read the article yet, but I'd suggest changing the taxobox picture- it looks faded to me. I'd suggest
. Also, there is a picture of a baby robin on commons that may be worked in. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 07:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Turdus-migratorius-002.jpg

Just letting anyone who interested know that I've nominated Image:Turdus-migratorius-002.jpg that was in this article as a featured picture candidate. If anyone wants to check out the nomination process, go here--ZeWrestler Talk 15:08, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Update - The image has been promoted to featured picture status. --ZeWrestler Talk 02:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Good Article" candidate

I am currently reviewing the article. Axl (talk) 17:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand this sentence, referring to T. m. nigrideus: "Some females can be as dark above as males of other subspecies." Axl (talk) 17:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Another odd sentence, referring to T. m. achrusterus: "It is smaller than the nominate subspecies and has a black forehead and crown finely tipped pale gray." Okay, it has a black forehead, but what does the latter half of the sentence mean? Axl (talk) 17:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding T. m. confinis: "the AOU regard it as only a subspecies, albeit in a different group to the other races". What is the "AOU"? Axl (talk) 19:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

In the "Description" section, what are "coverts"? Axl (talk) 19:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

T. m. phillipsi: "the male is less brick-red and rustier below." Does this mean less brick-red and less rusty? Axl (talk) 19:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed all but "coverts" - no time now Jimfbleak (talk) 19:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Y Done I've written a much-needed stub for covert (feather) and linked to that. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Jimfbleak. I have made several (mostly copyediting) changes. The article is comprehensive, reads well, and is nicely referenced and illustrated. I am delighted to promote it to "Good Article" status. Axl (talk) 07:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Juvenile Picture

I have a picture of a Juvenile American Robin that more clearly shows the spotted undersides...it has a similar clarity. Would anyone object to me replacing the current image? Cazort (talk) 23:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Go for it. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of 'robin'

European robin
European robin

I'm very surprised no mention is made in this article of where the name 'robin' came from. English settlers had a long tradition of naming the new, unfamiliar flora and fauna they came across in America after similar (and sometimes not-so-similar) looking birds, animals and plants they knew back home. The American robin was named after the European one, the only similarity being the red breast. (Ref Robert McCrum, William Cran and Robert MacNeil 1992 The Story of English 123 Faber and Faber ISBN 0 571 16443 9)

The list of 'adopted' American common names is huge and worthy of a Wikipedia aticle, I think - eg American cowslips (Caltha palustris, the kingcup or Marsh marigold in Britain) is nothing like the 'original' cowslip, Primula veris, apart from yellow-coloured flowers. Any takers? 86.133.212.100 (talk) 13:21, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I've added the bit about it being named after the European Robin. If you have relevant, sourced material to add to a Wikipedia article, don't just sit there being surprised that it's not already in the article -- get in there and do it! :-) Dricherby (talk) 12:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)