Talk:American Motors

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Contents

[edit] Thanks

Wow, this article looks much better now than when I first saw it! Thanks everyone! --ApolloBoy 01:13, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


in the part that talks about am genral and the humvee it is missing the new h3.. it just mentions the h1 and h2... chardrc

Only the H1 was designed by AM General when it was part of AMC. CZmarlin 14:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AMC logo font?

Can anyone identify the font in which the words "American Motors Corporation" are written at the bottom of the logo? I could easily create a scalable SVG version of the logo with this information. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 22:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

The font in the current picture is wrong (Avant Garde Gothic); the real one is an extra-bold weight of Helvetica, from what I can tell. -lee 22:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Just checked; it's Helvetica Black. -lee 22:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I've wanted that picture replaced. So far, the best replacement I've been able to find is this one. -Litefantastic 00:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
That logo was not an original AMC corporate design. The term "American Motors Corporation" was not used as part of the graphic - only "American Motors" was used. I put up a scan of the logo taken from a cover on AMC's PR folder. I hope this one looks better. CZmarlin 16:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up

The technical information of the article is very good. But some passages use hyperbole and have a weak POV feel. I could be mistaken, so an extra set of eyes never hurts. Stude62 01:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

There have been many sets of eyes on this article with many upgrades and edits. Perhaps is is now time to remove the "clean up" box? CZmarlin 14:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
It is now time to delete the "clean up" box! CZmarlin 15:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References section

Anybody want to format the references section?

--Christopherlin 16:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up on model lists

I have removed the model by model, play by play on the AMC page. First, its a list, and lists list things, they aren't for mini-articles. Secondly, many of the comments consisted of jargon, and while I appreciate anyone's enthusiasum, that belongs on the talk pages, not the article content. Stude62 22:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Userbox

I've made a pro-AMC userbox: {{User AMC}}. -Litefantastic 00:22, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Refrence section

I reformatted the refrences section, I hope this is better! -- Karrmann

Karmann, I went ahead and reverted the edit because the reformatting needs to be done using the following "formula"

* {{cite book | author = Last Name, First name| title = The title of the book goes here | publisher = name of the publisher goes here | year = XXXX | id = ISBN X-XXXX-XXX-X}}

So for the Standard Catalog of American Cars, the entry would be:

* {{cite book | author = Gunnell, John, Editor | title = The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975 | publisher = Kraus Publications | year = 1987 | id = ISBN 0-87341-096-3}}

Which produces:

  • Gunnell, John, Editor (1987). The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975. Kraus Publications. ISBN 0-87341-096-3. 

i know you went to a lot of trouble on the this section, and the reason why it hasn't been formatted is because its a bear to do, but these are the guidlines that need to be followed. Stude62 03:51, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikified Reference Section

I've reformatted the reference section according to the Wikipedia template for citing books. I've also removed a number of the references cited because many are redundent and specific to a model, not the corporation. Stude62 14:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Motors of 1906

I don't see any notation of American Motors Company (American Motor Car Company) from Indianapolis Indiana, which started trading in 1906.

  • Good observation! However, that company was in no way related to the AMC described here. It should be listed on the AMC page and have its own article as American Motor Car Company. CZmarlin 16:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • There was also a firm called American Motors Incorporated that made small delivery vans from about 1946 to 1949. I will add a page for that company. CZmarlin 22:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Someone's Business School paper?

While this may be a very interesting paper to read, I don't think it is appropriate for Wikipedia to just drop one's research paper in wholesale? It makes it too long, and too POV?! Hillsboro 16:08, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

  • But it's so much more thorough than what we had before. Couldn't we just sort of integrate it into the article? -Litefantastic 21:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
  • If it reads like a research paper, then it is a good and verifiable description of the company. When I first saw this article about AMC, it was mostly a description of the cars made by the company. Information about their products should be in the many articles about those models. I am new to this Wikipedia stuff, but I think this page should be about the history of the company itself (just like the extensive coverage of other automakers on their pages). In other words, it should help the reader understand AMC's business, strategy, management, and competitive situation. Information on the firm's specific models, engines, production, etc. is then linked from here. And speaking of Point Of View, I have tried to use outside sources (could someone help out and fix the footnotes to a proper format?) to represent the facts about the company. These are real authorities - such as the quotes by Lutz - that add value to the article. However, what I found when I first read this, the article was a continuous perspective that the company was doing things wrong. The best example were the statements that AMC made just average conventional cars. The truth was that consumers were buying them in droves. Therefore, it is far more significant to state a verifiable fact that Rambler became the third best selling brand because of their "conventional" models. I know the point of view of auto enthusiasts. Nevertheless, as far as styling and engineering are concerned - even to this day - Chevy sells several hundred thousand very average and conventional vehicles, for every one Corvette. However, if you scan today's automobile magazines, their pages focus cars such as the Corvette. They hardly mention the cars that most people buy and they are the vehicles that keep the automakers in business! Well, that is my $0.02 for now! CZmarlin 16:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I figured out how to make the footnotes! CZmarlin 14:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How do you edit the "People" links?

I have recently written up Edmund E Anderson, but I can't figure out how to get him listed at the bottom of the American Motors page along with Gerry Myers, Romney, et al.

How do you do it?

*
I have no clue how to do it, but I would also hope that there could be a list of AMC concept cars added in this box. I have done the Tarpon, Cavalier, and AMX-GT to this point.
If it can be done, please also add François Castaing to the list of notable AMC people.
Thank you! CZmarlin 05:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


  • I figured it out... You just open up the Template. I went ahead and added François Castaing for you.


** I added all of your prototypes. To edit the template, go to:
**
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template%3AAmerican_Motors
**
** MarcMontoni 11:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Renault brand discontinued?

The first paragraph of this article says that the Renault brand was discontinued after Chrysler bought AMC. I'm not entirely sure what this means. The way I've understood things were was that Renault owned AMC partly or completely and sold it to Chrysler. Certainly, the fact that AMC was passed under Chrysler's ownership had little effect with Renault's existence, either as a brand or as a company. If the article writer is trying to say that the Renault brand was removed from the US market, it certainly did not give that impression to me.

--Topsu 19:30, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Good observation. Renault continued as a brand in other parts of the world and is of course a major automaker. The first section now should now be more clear - that Chrysler discontinued the use of AMC and Renault brand names in the USA.
Renault has returned to Mexico in 2000, after a 14-year absence [1]. It markets its cars there under the Renault brand name [2] in addition to the Nissan models [3].
CZmarlin 05:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timelines?

It seems to me it would make sense to have some more templates that we can put in each article about AMC's cars, engines, etc.


For instance, what about putting the AMC model timeline in a template that can be inserted into the Gremlin, Ambassador, Spirit (etc etc) articles? How do I establish one?


Perhaps a few of us should agree on the common templates needed, and then add them to each model article. Ideas?

MarcMontoni 20:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The 1958 Rambler American was not the only discontinued car body to be reintroduced. The 1980-81 Pontiac Bonneville body was brought back for the 1985-86 Parissienne. Approximately 85,000 were built for each year, not a bad showing.

I tried to add the AMC Mighty Mite but couldn't figure out the formatting. Can anyone help? MarcMontoni 16:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Marc -- Does the Mighty Mite belong in this timeline -- or on the Jeep side? This model was not available to the public market. Rather, it was built under a contract for the armed forces. I think it needs to be with the Jeep utility vehicles -- or a special article or section that would focus on specialized vehicles made by the AM General division under AMC. Moreover, the Mighty Mite does not yet have its own article! CZmarlin 20:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that the 1940-41 Graham Hollywood and Huppmobile Skylark were updated reintroductions of the 1936-37 Cord 810/812 body. Rhettro76 19:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The Mighty Mite was an AMC product, NOT JEEP. Therefore it belongs in the AMC page. Yes, it's a "Jeep" type vehicle, but AMC produced it in the 60s long before they bought Kaiser Jeep. AMC purchased the design from an independent company -- can't find the name now. Farna 23:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where's the Jeep Buyout?

I see no mention of AMC buying Kaiser-Jeep in February 1970. The article reads like they had Jeep all along. This needs to be changed.

Also, I'm not quite sure how the Eagle Summit was envisioned as a replacement for the Eagle wagon, especially since the Summit was much smaller and wasn't available in America in wagon form until 1992. The Summit was much more of an Alliance/Encore replacement.

The Vista, which was only available in Canada, was added in 1989 in AWD wagon form, but it was not a replacement for the Eagle wagon, either, as it was simply a rebadged Mitsubishi-built Dodge/Plymouth Colt Vista that had been in production since 1984. And due to its rather limited availability, it could hardly be considered a proper successor to the Eagle wagon. Rhettro76 18:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What's a Matador?

Matador was a mainstay of the AMC line in the 1970's and its lineage traced back to the 1967 Rebel.

When the car was released, it was a stretched facelift of the Rebel, and was largely ignored by the market. This led to AMC's advertising for the car the following year.

I would be grateful for other contributions on this issue which will demonstrate to CZMarlin that I am not merely expressing a POV, as well as telling the story of this car which saw much community use with law enforcement agencies. Fitzpatrickjm 04:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fitzpatrickjm (talk • contribs) 04:32, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

I have no issue with the information about the Matador’s popularity as a police vehicle. There is a section on that topic in the AMC Matador page. Please add more specific information about police use on that page, and not in this article about the entire company. The specific POV issue is with the statements you have added concerning the Matador's lack of success in its first year and thus making AMC use the advertising line "What's a Matador?". That is POV. If you have a source for this, then please provide it and the objections will be withdrawn. Moreover, your claim that "Ultimately, Matador became a steady seller- particularly to several police departments." is also false. Once again, any "steady" sales of the Matador were not mainly due to government orders. Another problem is with the paragraph that "Interestingly, Matador relied on parts supplied by competitors ..." This is because AMC's strategy was to outsource many of its components. Please read further down and under the "Continuing business legacy" section you will find "Innovative strategies" where the following sentence details your "interestingly" comment: "... An essential strategy practiced by AMC was to rely on outside vendors to supply components in which they had differential advantages. This has finally been accepted in the US auto industry, but only after each of the Big Three experienced the failure of attempting to be self-sufficient..." Furthermore, AMC corporate strategy of sourcing components from outside vendors was not limited to the Matador's carburetor, steering column, etc. It was true for all of its automobiles and Jeeps as well. This was an integral approach from the inception of the firm -- look at the Nashs designed by someone else (Pininfarina) or built overseas (Nash Metropolitan) -- and continuing right through the very end of the AMC. Thank you for pointing out the value of your contribution, but I hope that you will now see why I reverted your edits the first time. Thank you, CZmarlin 05:13, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Fitzpatrickjm, I agree with CZMarlin. I must add, however, that AMC wasn't really a pioneer in this area. Heck, AMC itself produced parts for other automakers. For instance, Evart Products was a wholly-owned AMC subsidiary that produced injection-molded plastic components for all U.S. automakers (notably, grilles). There was another division that made automotive wiring harnesses (Coleman Products Corporation, Coleman, WI). Hmmm... Now that I mention them, I see they are not in the "legacy" section. MarcMontoni 04:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with most of the POV comments. AMC launched the "What's A Matador?" ads to increase public recognition of the name, and of course the ads were sales driven, but the Matador wasn't an especially poor performer in 1971. There were around 47,600 70 Rebels sold. In 71 the Matador sold around 43,400. Hardly enough difference to site "poor sales" as the reason for the ads. Sales did go up in 73 and 74 (then took a nose dive) though. The ad campaign certainly helped, but the fresh styling (compared to earlier models) certainly had an effect. Note that while the Matador sedans/wagons are essentially restyled Rebels, the lineage of the car goes back to the 63 Classic. The 67 body is derived directly from the 63-66 body -- lengthened and widened a bit, but otherwise very close to the same. Farna 23:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The 1963-66 Ambassador/Classic body and the 67-78 Ambassador/Rebel/Matador body (as well as the 1975-78 series 10 Matador Coupe) are in no way related. The 63s and the 67s were both clean sheet designs and not related to their predecessors.

[edit] 1970's

I edited the 1970's section, I thought it would look better with the pictures in chronological order and I added a 1973 AMC hornet picture. --Hiaburi 17:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)