Talk:American Global University School of Medicine

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on October 22, 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus, defaulting to Keep.
Caribbean
Caribbean Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to Caribbean, and areas of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-class on the quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
Assessment comments
SICA ZP
Latin America Portal
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Central America, which collaborates on articles related to Central America. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.

Contents

[edit] Accuracy Dispute

I am trying to follow the rules of Wikipedia. I have e-mailed Wikipedia on a few occassions asking why individuals are able to convert my information and place incorrect information under American Global University School of Medicine. I do not wish to make the article sound like an advertisement, nor do I wish to see incorrect information. A few of my concerns regarding American Global University School of Medicine information:

1. The school is accredited by the government of Belize, Ministry of Education, Marian McNab. This is verifiable information. You may contact the Ministry of Education at 011-501-822-2329. Ms. McNab is difficult to reach by telephone, so you may have to speak with her assistant Ms. Irene Cruz.

2. The school has received approval to be listed with the ECFMG. Carole Bede of FAIMER/ECFMG granted approval back in April 2006. The school had to wait until it held its first day of Basic Science classes on campus which was September 4, 2006. The ECFMG only updates their website once or twice a year . . . if you are relying on the website for up to date verifiable information, it is not!

I am a Director of the University. My introduction to Wikipedia was from students who attend the University. They were outraged at the incorrect information your site was presenting to others. We have also had applicants mention the incorrect information on your site . . . and they give it to us as a "heads up" . . . "People are writing bad things about your university" kind of way . . . because these students have done their verifications and know the information presented on this site is incorrect.

How can we correct this? How can we persuade the editors of Wikipedia who keep taking out the correct information verify their information? If the correct information continues to be distorted and incorrect information is placed under the definition . . . We do not want to be listed on the Wikipedia site. We did not ask to be listed . . . I am assuming disgrunted competition placed us there to begin with and place incorrect information. . . . but it is more of a hassle to keep checking the site and noticing that the correct information keeps getting changed to incorrect information.

I do not wish to keep receiving warnings and I apologize for earning the few I have received . . . I guess I did not realize I was doing something wrong.

Once again, the information I placed on the site is verifiable. The persons changing the information should possibly be receiving a warning for placing false information down when they should have taken the "real" time to verify their information.

Please let me know how we can proceed in a constructive way . . . I did not mean to break any rules, I was not fully aware of all of them until I just received the warnings . . . apologies!

Sincerely, Let'sGetReal

Hi Let'sGetReal,
Thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention without starting a revert war. I have moved your concerns from my talk page to the article's talk page to generate greater visibility and discussion amongst WP editors. I have also added a disputed tag to the article to notify readers of your concerns that the article is factually inaccurate. In response to your concerns:
1) Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Please see WP:SPAM. Your version of the article uses phrases such as: "mirrors the quality standards of U.S. medical schools," and "taught by a quality faculty of British and U.S. Physicians" which definitely sound as if the intent of the article is to advertise for the school. As a administrator with the school, editing the article in such a way could be seen as a conflict of interest under WP:VAIN.
2) The cornerstone of Wikipedia is verifiability. However, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader must be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. A phone call is not a reliable source under Wikipedia policy. You could be calling anyone at that number, the school included. Facts must be published in official reliable sources prior to being allowed in Wikipedia, otherwise they would be original research. Anything that is added must be properly referenced from published sources. See St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine or St Matthews University for examples of how controversial phrases must be documented.
3) The only reliable source I can find is the fact that it is not mentioned in IMED. As per the website, it says "Current as of 08 Oct 2006" (today's date), so I tend to believe that it is an accurate representation of the current state of affairs, which would be that students/grads are currently ineligible for the USMLE.
As for how to proceed:
You may use Dispute Resolution procedures, such as third opinion or Request for Comments for getting additional WP editor's views on the matter.
If you do not want to be listed, you can nominate the article for deletion, but I expect it to be kept anyways, since as a post-graduate institution it is inherently notable and worthy of a WP article.
Hope that helped clarify things. Leuko 22:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Let'sGetReal, unfortunately wikipedia has been spammed in the past with incorrect and fraudulent schools. We take articles seriously, especially medical schools and other high education institutions.
Do you have any links that can confirm what you claim? Calling a phone number amounts to WP:OR, which is not acceptable. Do you have any proof that this place is what it claims?
International numbers prove nothing as they can be routed to different numbers. Say you call a French number it can be directed to a answering service in Dallas, Texas.
The matter of WP:V is very important especially considering the article notes the headquarters are in Ohio, which is governed by various laws regarding medical education. Arbusto 02:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. There is very little in this article anyway. The lack of accreditation and absence from FAIMER/IMED is verifiable, and that's about it. If somoene has additional verifiable information then there's no reason it can't be included, provided it is in line with our neutrality policy (especially the "undue weight" clause). Guy 08:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

I have removed the notability tag from the article in accordance with the proposed WP:SCHOOL guidelines. As a post-secondary school, the guidelines state that it is inherently notable. Leuko 16:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

1) Proposed guidelines aren't policy. 2) How about you find a WP:RS that this is a school? 3) I've reinserted the tag until you overcome these two issues as the afd did not achieve consensus. Arbusto 18:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
1) Established notability guidelines aren't policy either, but they are guidelines. 2) There are already two WP:RS in the article which prove that the school is not accredited despite its claims. 3) Another editor has removed the tag Leuko 18:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
A footnote for WP:SCHOOL on postsecondary, the proposed policy, states "Tertiary educational institutions which are distinctly for-profit should also be examined with Wikipedia:Notability (companies and corporations)." Do you have proof this passes WP:CORP? Arbusto 18:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I doubt that there is any notability that can be established. The reason the article survived the AfD is that it was decided that it was information that should be made available. Way forward? Either the notability tag should remain off or there should be a second AfD to attemt to reach concensus. BlueValour 18:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
If notability isn't asserted then it will be put up for afd again. Usually you don't afd for a second time days after the first one was closed. Arbusto 19:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you have proof that the institution is for profit? Leuko 18:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
You wrote its headquarters are in Ohio. According to the IRS, there is no non-profit by this name.[1] It charges in the thousands of dollars[2], not pesos. If you want to assert it is a non-profit, what's your source? Arbusto 19:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
What's your source of the school's tuition? If you don't feel that the school's website is a WP:RS to prove the school exists, it can not be used to determine for/not-for-profit. Sorry to play the devil's advocate, but WP policies must be applied evenly and fairly. Leuko 22:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
My source is the schools page. I don't understand your second sentence. Arbusto 23:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I added an InfoBox and created an accrediation section which has the latest info. This school has a charter from it's local government, thus it's accredited there. However, several US states ban the school's degrees. It's unaccredited somewhere, but not on Belize. Bstone 04:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Recognition/charter/listing in IMED does not equal accreditation. Leuko 16:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The only way a school is granted a charter is if the school lives up the accrediation standards of the local government. Thus, when a school has a charter from a government it is also accredited by the government. A listing in IMED means you have a charter and thus accreditation from a legitimate government. Bstone 17:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Incorrect. Per IMED, the schools are listed if they are recognized by their local government. It actually says nothing about accreditation. Leuko 17:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Leuko, if a school is recognized by their government then the school is also accredited by the same government. The graduates of these schools are eligable for licensure in the countries which they operate in. Thus, the schools are both recognized and accredited. Please explain to me how a school can be recognized by a government but not accredited. Bstone 20:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
IMED uses the term recognized, and that's what we should stick with. Listing in IMED is not an indication of accreditation, and it has been listed by an official state agency as unaccredited, so that's what we should go with. Leuko 21:22, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Leuko, I have added a listing for the Belize Medical School Accreditation Committee which has indeed accredited this school. [[3]] This should be the sum of the discussion about the status of accreditation for this school. Bstone 22:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Comment

[edit] Oregon listing

I believe the Oregon listing is not for this school. If you following the link it says "American Global University" with the state of Wyoming. The names are similar, but the state (and countries) are completely separate. While it is original research, I did call the Oregon office and inquired and the woman says she thinks they are not the same schools. Due solely to the fact that the names are different and the locations are different I will be removing this listing. Please comment here if you feel otherwise. Bstone 22:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Both the Oregon and Texas listings have "American Global University" at a location in Wyoming, the institution currently lists a US HQ & Admissions Office in Canal Winchester, Ohio. Given the apparent delay that can be involved in updating state lists, I think it's entirely possible that the "HQ & admissions office" has moved from Wyoming to Ohio and the Texas and Oregon boards have not yet caught up with this fact in respect of their lists. I'd also generally expect that AGUSOM is part of AGU, I think most people would generally expect that "blah University School of Medicine" was part of "blah University" and it would be considered unusual if this were not the case, although I will concede having looked at the respective websites for AGUSOM and AGU they do appear to be separate institutions, so will delete the section myself. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 23:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RFC

A WP:RFC that may affect issues of contention in the editing of this article has been requested in a similar article here: Talk:Medical_University_of_the_Americas_-_Belize#RFC_Oct_2007. Please go there to comment! DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 23:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits by MITBeaverRocks

In the past few hours MITBeaverRocks has introduced a series of edits which clearly violate NPOV and also introduce false info. He has stated this school is an unaccredited diploma mill[4], that IMED is not recognized by US authorities[5], yet is insisting on my talk page that he is indeed holding to a neutral point of view. Besides the fact that his edits are directly contradicted by sourced material in the article, I think he might just be trolling. Bstone (talk) 04:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)